Interview with Sonny Vincent
by Crizia Giansalvo
Let's start from the beginning: you are a legend from the New York '77 scene. By now, what was the good and the bad of it?
SV- Lots of complimentary drinks! No, just kidding… Well the best part was being there. The scene was charged and electric, a mercurial feeling of being on a frontier. These days the good part is people can listen to the music, pure and real. From the beginning that was our main goal, to keep it real and immediate. The bad part is that the system was against us from the first day. Although a lot of what we accomplished was a pleasure and a joy, there was a lot of struggling and suffering involved as well.
In the last years many important past bands, like the New York Dolls, made a reunion tour. It's just speculation or nowadays there's a real void that only the past seems to fill?
SV-I guess in many ways it does fill a void. People need that outlet even more theses days. They look to these bands for inspiration and it doesn’t matter if the bands are from a scene from the past, it’s still valid and rocks. People search for alternatives to the usual crap they are force fed by the media. I notice more and more interest in the 60’s as well as the late 70’s. Lot’s of interest in the Dolls and the MC5 etc. From what I have noticed about the interest in the Punk bands from the ’77 scene is that people like to see these groups and somehow live and experience the mind set. They’re getting a connection, idea, a bond with what its like to live on the edge or at least what it ‘was’ like. The music was fucking rebellious, the songs were killer and in some cases crazy and fun. I can see how it’s still attractive. The cool kids and the reflective types search the stuff down, they need it! Through the music of these bands people can express the part of themselves that is willing to go to the edge. The part that is constantly kept in check by their day to day interfacing with modern society. I can understand it, without the music some of us feel you might as well be dead. So rather than live in fear and live with a constant feeling of loss within a meaningless existence we have a feeling of something being progressive. I admit at times it seems like it exists only in dreams, the ideas that anything can really change, sometimes seems far away. But the bands and artists are selling these dreams in a way, and promoting them. At least the bands you speak of. These are very conservative times, fear, envy and consumerism are too depressing to handle. Some people wanna shake things up, send out a big “Fuck You” and really ‘go for it’. They recognize elements of their true spirit in the music. That’s maybe my personal analyzing of it, but I do feel the music resonates with people deeply, much deeper perhaps than a lot of the commercial stuff around these days.
Emo scene takes a lot aesthetically from punk and they proclaim themselves "the modern sons of punk rock". Their adolescent frustration is "tears, blood and depression", no more "sex, drugs and rock'n'roll". We have to blame modern crisis, technology, MTV?
SV- I don’t have any problems with the Emo scene or people I have met that are supposed to be ‘Emo’. I tend to take people as individuals, one at a time. I try to stay away from putting them in a group or boxing them in with a label. But for conversation sake I can say that I find no difficulty relating to them. I prefer the Emo kids to a fascist racist type any day or to the typical consumer type. Seems like these Emo’s dig deeper and look further to find a niche or way of defining themselves. Plus I have always been attracted to people who work on their expression through their style. Some of the music is a bit crappy, but some of it is good. All that being said, I always enjoyed a bit rougher image. My original band ‘ Testors’ was termed ‘ Original Music’ they tried to label us with the term ‘ Punk’ but it wasn’t until they came up with the watered down term ‘ New Wave’ that finally I felt comfortable with the term ‘ Punk’. What I’m getting at is connected to your question concerning ‘Emo’s’. I like em, They are different from how it was in the early Punk scene but they have maybe a lot of the same sentiments. Anyway I like the Emo’s, I had a relative when I was a kid, it was my ‘Uncle Emo’, so I have a personal connection to them.
You worked with many different artists, sometimes from different musical backgrounds. What is the magic formula to make it work?
SV- I usually have some sort of vision or concept of what I want and need. I contact people who I feel can help me achieve that. The magic is in their passion.
What has been the most difficult collaboration?
SV- I had both Cheetah Chrome and Bob Stinson in my band ‘ Shotgun Rationale’ at the same time. Now that was a therapist’s nightmare! Generally working with Bobby Stinson was very difficult, we had wonderful times together and although I loved him dearly he was carrying a lot of baggage around. Also having band members on heroin was at times tedious. It always led to problems. Whether they were ‘kicking’ or trying to ‘score’ it could be very problematic. I had my time there as well and I know I was not an angel but never on the road and my experience in that department was limited and not a lifestyle. All in all the musicians I played with have been very soulful regardless of which drug they were into, or if they were straight. I have been fortunate to mainly work with people on a deep level, you don’t often find that in everyday jobs, so although it can be dramatic sometimes its equally stimulating to work and get close to the raw nerve with people. Dedication and soul, that’s the best scenario.
I wanna remember the Dead Boys. I love Stiv Bators, do you have a memory to share about him?
SV- Stiv was a real Gentleman and a friendly guy. Contrary to the stage image or the general perception of the man, he was a very caring and thoughtful person. The stage image did reflect his own dissatisfaction with the world, that was real and he was able to bring that out on stage and in the music. He expressed it well. A consummate artist, a fun guy to be with. Once in a while I saw him doing ‘pranks’ and sort of disgusting ‘Punk’ actions, but that was usually when we were drunk or high! One time when we were on tour in the States we were in a Hilton or Radisson Hotel and Stiv urinated into the ice machine in the hallway. He was into doing disgusting stuff sometimes but I think it was mainly an acting out on his part to shock people. But he did come off as the little brat from the neighborhood who would set the neighbors garbage can on fire. I think he liked the image of the naughty boy. Aside from that sort of debauchery he was a very thoughtful person. I know that sounds contradictory but people are sometimes complex. You know?
We wrote letters back and forth after he moved to Paris. I miss him a lot.
In your life there's not only music, but even cinema and arts. Would you talk about these projects?
SV- I have been involved in the visual arts, filmmaking, as well as writing and installation art. I still do that stuff sometimes. Over the years I’ve had some showings and exhibitions. They were labors of love that also provided me with the funding and chance to explore and discover audio/visual expression through it. I find that kind of work very rewarding in certain ways. You can express within it, through it, and it’s very different from playing in a band and making music. Playing in a band sometimes there are so many psycho dramas. When I’m busy in the visual arts it’s more of a social isolation. It fascinates me how different it can be. An entirely different venue and function from purely making music. Well, making the sort of music I make. One of the main differences is that I ‘choose’ to make a film or I ‘choose’ to create an installation environment but with ‘music’ there is no choice. It’s as if I am chosen and hounded by it. I knew it from the start that it was my destiny. Sometimes I think I would rather have had a more traditional life and job. But there is no escaping the fact that music is an outlet of my own being and soul.
As an 360° artist, I think about another important figure of the garage scene,Billy Childish.Uk television asked him to take part of Big Brother VIP and he denied. If they ask you, would you Shoot the tv or give us a more beautiful television show?
SV- I turn a lot of stuff down too. I wouldn’t do the show you mentioned. One time recently they wanted to film me and interview me for that film about Arthur Kane and the New York Dolls, but I heard through the grapevine that it sort of had a slight intention to make the Arthur seem lost and dizzed out. I knew Arthur and although he did suffer from being neglected and not supported by the music industry, he never seemed ‘lost’ to me. He was totally committed to each day of his life. When I was going to call him one time to record with me and Clem people said “ Oh, don’t call Arthur, he’s under the table” ( an American expression, saying a person is ‘ fried’ or burnt out). Well I called him and said “ Arthur tell me if I am right, your sitting around your place watching television with your bass on your lap playing the songs on the TV”. He was shocked because that is exactly what he was doing! We recorded a few days later and he was totally fit on the bass and played perfectly. A very soulful, talented man. The next year he was on the Dolls reunion, I was so very happy for him. He is very missed. Anyway to answer your question: I would do some feature television stuff but I would never kiss ass or bend to the bright lights of it all. If I felt it had some real value I might accept. I’m sure Billy Childish made the right decision. A very stand up guy.
Why you moved from New York and why you choose Minneapolis?
SV- Yeah, Well that’s a long story and I moved to Minnesota for personal reasons. I didn’t know much about the place before I went there. To me it was some far away place that I had no information about. Actually in my childhood I didn’t go to school much, hitchhiked away from school when I was 13 years old, so I suppose I missed the chapter on ‘ Minnestoa’. I arrived there directly from N.Y.C -that was some serious culture shock for me! Going from the streets of New York ( I lived directly across from C.B.G.B.) to the friggin’ mid west!!! Unbelievable! There were farm and crop reports on TV all the time and everyone was very nice and easy going ( except the police). Quite a change from the Urban Jungle and streets of Manhattan. So at first for me, it was like a strange planet of cows, lakes and cornfields. In the winter they had ‘Ice Fishing’ , people were asking me everyday to go ‘ Ice Fishing’ with them. “ Hey Sonny you wanna go ice fishing?,” Yeah right I’ll just sit on the lake all day in my skinny black pants and Beatle boots, freeze my ass off and ‘Ice Fish’!!! Ice fishing is where they put a small shed or cabin in the middle of a frozen lake and then cut a whole in the ice and sit inside the shed there all day with a line going down into the water through the big hole in the ice trying to wake fish up and catch em’!! From NYC directly to Minnesota, that was some real ball busting change of reality for me. On the positive side I did meet Bobby Stinson there and made many other friends who are dear to me. Also Bob Mould lived next door to me and he was a real interesting person, helped me out a couple of times. All in all it was a positive experience living there, but at the time it seemed like my image was a bit shocking to them. These days there are tons of people walking around Minnesota looking like I do, But when I was there the folks would all stop to look at me! I felt like I dropped in from another planet. Good times bad times. I did have a cool band there though and we had some high points on stage and some very funny experiences. BUT I do send out a special ‘ FUCK YOU’ to the Minnesota police department. Reason for that is that like I said the everyday folks in Minnesota would just stop and stare at me, but the pigs would make it their job to actually stop me and give me a hard time of it. A couple of times they nearly killed me, really. The Minneapolis Police Departmet in the 80’s were the worst example of brutal asswipes with guns. Always trouble with the police there. I don’t know what the scene is like there these days in that regard but I definitely can tell you that the Minnesota pigs were on the warpath, they were running on hatred and corruption and when I was around they wanted to block me and give me trouble! Amazing since I never did any real bad stuff, maybe a bit of speeding around in my car or acting the fool, but they were highly sensitive to anything that might represent a form of freedom or having a wild spirit and although they didn’t have the capacity to figure out how to bust real criminals they did have the time and effort to attack a RockNroller. I have photo’s of the time they beat me so badly I had to be hospitalized.
In 2008 you worked with an Italian label (Primitive Records) for a compilation and a tour. What do you think of Italian scene?
SV- The Italian scene is absolutely fantastic and cool. Just like the early scene in NYC in the late 70’s- not so many people but very dedicated and excited ones! Yeah Italy is very special to me, I spent some time and had fun and a few drinks with the guy from ’Temporal Sluts’. Met up with someone from ‘ Idol Lips’ and lots more. I like the scene there, it’s the best kind. A small dedicated, intelligent group of people coming together to have fun and explore possibilities. That’s how it was in New York anyway during the most exciting times in the late 70’s of Max’s Kansas City and C.B.G.B. A small non commercial scene, even to the point of being unknown to the rest of the society. The mainstream of society had their ‘ Disco’ and we had… well you know the history! I’m diggin the scene in Italy and when you add to that the intrinsic warmness of the Italian people in general, I’m very happy when I’m there. The guys I played music with there are all aces! Hey Ricardo, Tony and Vincenzo!!!!! Pasta Fasoule!!
In your lyrics, we found sometimes the words "arabic" and "egypt". Do you have read the book from Knight Michael M. "Islampunk"? What do you think about the future combination of islam and punk?
SV- I haven’t read the entire book but I am familiar with it. Bought a copy in San Francisco but only browsed through it. Funny, how a fictional story inspired people to create a real scene using the books concepts. I think it’s quite funny (not Ha ha funny, but in an interesting way). It could have a beneficial effect in encouraging people to question the dogma of their belief system.
Others references are about political and religious situation (Buddhist on fire, the instrumental Why do they still persecute Jesus Christ) or about important thinkers of the past (Voltaire) or the present (Sex with Noam Chomski). There's always a possibility, and a hope, for a change, In this way, it's Barack Obama an incarnation of change for you?And what about Sex and Chomski?
SV- Even when I was a kid I was voraciously absorbing alternative as well as traditional concepts, investigating and researching religions, philosophers, writers and politics. In school we had an assignment to go the the library to do something specific for class, but I would soon forget about that with all those books around, and be on my own journey reading what interested me. Obama is the first President who can dance and on that alone he’s my main man! Although it’s a waste that Noam Chomsky is not the President! A waste of a decent, intelligent person who would be able to make some real changes!!! The song I wrote ‘ Sex With Noam Chomsky’ came about one day when I was day dreaming about him I was just contemplating what a decent conscientious person he was. I really, really, really admire him but in this sort of daydream I began to wonder since Noam is so fair and all that, how can he initiate wild sex? The sort of passionate unannounced- throw your partner across the kitchen table, kissing and going a bit wild as the salt and pepper shakers fall flying across the room and everything is crashing, this kind of passionate action. How does such a decent guy initiate this? Hmmm… “ Noam (speaking)- “ Would it be particularly crossing any borders if I placed my hand on your knee?” Ummm…. Noam (speaking-)“ I have an urge to remove your clothing do you agree to that?” Well that’s the initial inspiration for the song but all that was left of that inspiration was the title and some of the lyrics. Anyway, a silly idea and a silly day dream and in the end I don’t really examine the concept of the daydream but rather say a bunch of words that are like an Homage to Noam instead! But the impetuous of songs, the words and the initial inspirations are sometimes not the best clue to the meaning. It’s best to let the meaning come forth through the listening. Once when I was playing with ‘Moe’ we did a show together with Jonathan Richman and I made the mistake of asking him about a song he wrote, the one about the chewing gum wrapper and suddenly he gave me and Sterling a very interesting twenty minute monologue about it. Very interesting but like I said I got more from just the listening. For example who would want to ask Joey about the song ‘ Beat On The Brat’ it’s not really about beating someone is it? No, it’s a feeling and it’s only conveyed through the listening of the music and the lyrics experienced together. That’s one of the reasons I am hounded and tracked down and can’t resist to play RockNRoll music, because when you get it right, it’s magic.
Do you have a project that you didn't realize yet?
SV- Many projects. There are a few books that I want to write, other stuff as well, film stuff. Currently I also have a number of albums ‘in the can’ so to speak. It’s music I recorded but didn’t release yet. Some of it is cool stuff I recorded with Scott Asheton and some other stuff is from the early days in New York. One album project I am currently working on to release is one I recorded at Twin Tone Studios in Minneapolis with Bobby Stinson in the 80’s. I am putting the package together and trying to make it beautiful and special. Including stories and pictures with Bobby, sort of a sweet memorial to him that comes together with the music we made. But I run against the same old shit problems. There are ten record companies who want to put it out, actually eleven now, BUT they all want to only look at it as a commercial transaction and they are very concerned with how much money they will make from it and they try to minimize the costs of production. They want spend the very least on the packaging. They all offer to print a bunch of CD’s, market them , keep the initial costs down and make the most profit. I want to make something special that people can own and look at and experience a small bit of Bob. Something to cherish. I don’t care if it doesn’t make that extra dollar. I don’t think it should be compromised and be a cheap ‘product’. It’s a bit frustrating but I am going to make it somehow. I’m probably just going to simply release it on my own label (‘Disturbed Records’ a label I originally formed to help struggling new bands get their album out) and make the package just how I see it.
