A lot of the Oi bands were influenced by glam and music hall too, like The Gonads (being from South London, I'm stating the obvious local example). You've reiterated what I said about musical divisions, with kids being into one thing or the other. Football fans dressing up as Alice Cooper or Bowie being indicative of this. As a teenager,  I was an indie kid and my sis liked dance music and early jungle. Perhaps it shows there's no such thing as a typical teenage music.

A lot of indie has an English approach, especially the mod influenced and cutie stuff. No wonder why Go Sailor or anything on Thee SPC doesn't fly in the US.

matthew rosedon said:

Thanks for the responses to my Why glam meant next to nothing in the US query.

Some further thoughts:

The UK has a tradition of camp theatricality from the music hall and the pantomime.  It's often said that the average Englishman can't wait to drag up.  This is reflected in The Kinks, Madness, the Smiths and many others who are quintessentially English in their approach (I know the Kinks enjoyed American success but not in their 'English' period of 1965-71 approx.)  Perhaps this doesn't translate across the Atlantic beyond cult status.  When I think of mainstream US rock of the early 70s names like Lynryd Sknyrnd and the Doobie Brothers spring to mind - music (I use the term loosely) and image as far away from The Sweet and Roxy Music as it's possible to get.  Perhaps good old fashioned prejudice played a part whereby glam was seen as limey faggot music and not rawk.

Like punk a few years after, glam was reaction music - reaction against the grey and dreary 70s that was life in England, and also a reaction against the grey and dreary music of Pink Floyd, Yes etc.  A generation gap was opening up in popular music in the UK where your big brother listened to prog rock and wore an ex-army greatcoat while your kid sister had pictures of Bolan on her bedroom wall and wore glittery make-up.

To ask another question:  Glam rock was teenage music.  If glam meant next to nothing in the US what was a 13 year old listening to in Montana or Massachusetts in 1973?  Did a specific teenage music still exist?

Thanks for the responses to my Why glam meant next to nothing in the US query.

Some further thoughts:

The UK has a tradition of camp theatricality from the music hall and the pantomime.  It's often said that the average Englishman can't wait to drag up.  This is reflected in The Kinks, Madness, the Smiths and many others who are quintessentially English in their approach (I know the Kinks enjoyed American success but not in their 'English' period of 1965-71 approx.)  Perhaps this doesn't translate across the Atlantic beyond cult status.  When I think of mainstream US rock of the early 70s names like Lynryd Sknyrnd and the Doobie Brothers spring to mind - music (I use the term loosely) and image as far away from The Sweet and Roxy Music as it's possible to get.  Perhaps good old fashioned prejudice played a part whereby glam was seen as limey faggot music and not rawk.

Like punk a few years after, glam was reaction music - reaction against the grey and dreary 70s that was life in England, and also a reaction against the grey and dreary music of Pink Floyd, Yes etc.  A generation gap was opening up in popular music in the UK where your big brother listened to prog rock and wore an ex-army greatcoat while your kid sister had pictures of Bolan on her bedroom wall and wore glittery make-up.

To ask another question:  Glam rock was teenage music.  If glam meant next to nothing in the US what was a 13 year old listening to in Montana or Massachusetts in 1973?  Did a specific teenage music still exist?

That's right. I read there were even groups of Football Hooligans in the Early 70's , who'd go to matches , either dressed as Alice Cooper or David Bowie , depending on which team they supported. There were strong divisions in music , here , too.
 
Chris Henniker said:

I love the VU, as they started it all. Glam, goth, punk, indie rock, heavy metal, industrial, etc, all come from these guys. I have a lot to thank Lou Reed and John Cale for, even influence on my writing. I've even written short stories that could've featured on their albums (Think of The Gift, which shows Reed's storytelling talent)

Here in England, it all fell into whether you were into Slade or T-Rex. The arty kids likes Bowie, Bolan, Roxy Music etc and the more "Proleish" (for want of a better word) were into Slade.  It's amazing what divisions in British youth culture there were expressed through music from the late 50's onwards.

MikeL said:

Watching the movie "Velvet Goldmine" turned me on to the New York Dolls and Iggy and the Stooges, and reading Barney Hoskyns' book, which was published in conjunction with the movie, got me into the Velvet Underground.  These are all bands that I had heard of many times before, but I just never got around to checking them out before.  I love your use of the word "gateway," because that happened to me too.

Aldyth Beltane said:

Oh absolutely a 70's Glam Rock fan!  Ziggy kind of saved my life, and was a gateway to Iggy, The Velvet Underground, the New York Dolls, and so on.  Also dig some of the bands that were pretty obscure in America like Mudd, so on.  I like the sweeter, teenybopper stuff when you get me in the right mood, and even though they were Glam as such, Be Bop Deluxe's Axe Victim is one of my all time fave albums.  For that matter, Marc Bolan and T.Tex were pretty damn inspirational for me too!

I could'nt tell you WHY this stuff did'nt take off in The U.S.   I know you are'nt exaggerating , either , when you mention compare Bolan's fame , and , for that matter , Slade , too , to The Beatles. Britain needed something like that to happen , when it did. Even McCartney claimed he did'nt want Wings to become a big superstar Rock act , noting "T-Rex and Slade can have that.".  I have to stress , I'm not knocking the lesser known (Still) stuff that others have mentioned , like Mud , Alvin Stardust , Zolar -X , Chicory Tip , Vodka Collins ,etc. , and the sides most of us are just finding out about via comps like Boobs and Velvet Tinmine (Tho' Fancy's too freakin' sexy "Wild Thing" was a hit , here...) . But , somehow , when I've DJ'ed Glam Night , I get "x" amount of time , and there's certain tracks I HAVE to play , and am glad to , but , it leaves little room for the (Even) more - obscure stuff.      I actually thought Slade were big , here , though , when I was a kid. My Brother had most of their records , and "Cum On Feel Th' Noize" and "Gudbuy T'Jane" got nominal airplay , as both made the top 100. People keep saying it was just a British thing.

It's just possible that England was ready for something akin to Bubblegum , keen songwriting , something catchy , stylistically , but with an image attatched to it, something that grabbed the eye as well as the ears. We (Well , I was a wee small lad, but I followed this shit.) were going through Nixon , Watergate , The Energy Crisis , and still dealing with  Vietnam , plus ,  a bankrupt NYC was right around the corner. It was a time for ludes , reds , cheap wine and Boogie -Rock , I guess , but only the few , the proud "Got it " with Glam .  It all goes back to Chuck Berry , Little Richard , Eddie Cochran and Gene Vincent , so WHY it was'nt a hit , here , I could'nt tell ya. I read that it crushed Bolan's spirits , and , he was playing out here as far back as with Tyrannosaurus Rex.....
 
matthew rosedon said:

It's fascinating reading all these comments about the obscurity of glam in the US.  If you're my age (53) and from the UK these bands were the soundtrack to your teenage years.  Glam was absolutely massive here - Slade had 6 number 1 singles when a number 1 single in the UK really meant something and Bolan was the biggest star since The Beatles (trust me, that is not an exaggeration).  And yet, as has been pointed out they all meant next to nothing in the States.  It's not as if the US has been totally resistant to UK music over the years so why didn't you Americans go for glam?  Your theories please...   

MikeL , Man ! I remember it well....I even have a little 8mm FOOTAGE REMAINING FROM IT , THAT I SHOT OFF THE TV ! I had a chance to buy a bootleg copy for $20, about 20 years ago...I took a pass. I was just getting out of my Kiss coma, around that time , but , even when I was younger , and a huge fan , I kinda thought , they , too looked like Gay space aliens , particularly Paul and Ace (Nothing contrary about Gays OR space aliens meant.). I remember the Bowie footage , my older Brothers had his records and posters , so , it was'nt that shocking or offensive ....I did'nt become a fan , in earnest , for some time , tho'. The special had great footage of Muddy Waters , Little Richard , and , of course , The Stones , too.
 
MikeL said:

BTW, here's a personal memory I would like to share...Does anyone here remember a TV special that was aired sometime in 1978 titled "Heroes of Rock'n'Roll"?  It was narrated by Jeff Bridges, and it documented the history of rock'n'roll.  I watched it mainly to see if KISS would be mentioned (To my 10-year-old mind at the time, they were the only band that mattered).  Anyway, David Bowie was mentioned, and some footage from the "Ziggy Stardust" movie was shown.  Quite honestly, I was totally repulsed by Bowie, not only because of the androgyny but also because he came across as just so creepy to me.  To my mind, it was OK to like KISS, because they had a cool and macho super hero image, but Bowie's gay space creature image was too much for me to handle.  

I think this helps to explain why glam never really caught on here in America, because quite honestly, I also thought this way at the time.

BTW, a short clip of KISS was shown, to the sound "Rocking in the USA," one of the studio tracks that appeared on "ALIVE II."  I felt a little miffed at the time, because I thought they deserved more attention than that, but hey, this was back in the days when I thought KISS was the greatest band of all time, and "Star Wars" was the greatest movie of all time.  *sigh* The stuff you think is sooo cool when you're 10-years-old...

I have to kick in with MikeL , there. If anyone gives you grief for liking T-Rex , ask 'em what THEY would prefer to listen to. It's one thing if Marc's not their bag , but to put someone DOWN for it? Some people knock this stuff until they hear a good cross section of it , tho' not by force.
 
Joanie Lindstrom said:

I'm surprised no one's mentioning bands like Mud, Jook and other things that got overlooked amongst all the Bowie, Mott, etc. Those comps I mentioned above are a treasure trove of interesting (and not so interesting) stuff. Worth it just for finding out about Iron Virgin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzyps1zyAUQ


MikeL said:

How can anyone not like T-Rex? Marc Bolan was as cool as it gets.

Clemens Stubbe said:

I personally get some shit for liking T-rex, but Marc Bolan is all worth it :D I really couldn't hate 80s hair more, but like every other rock genre, glam has had its ups and down. Roxy music kicks some serious ass as well, and with a somewhat cooler attitude, but I haven't had a chance to listen to that much of it, sadly.

Oh yeah, absolutely!  No disagreement there.  Just noting that they came from the same places in terms of spirit/psychology/personality/sociologically/what have you as well as musically. Bowie wore (quite literally sometimes!) his influences on his sleeve, be they musical or otherwise. How he combined the bits and pieces was part of what made it so interesting.

But anyway, yeah, I think we're coming from similar viewpoints here.

Chris Henniker said:

Glam, punk and psychedelia all came from garage. Even Bowie ripped off the Shadows Of Knight's "Oh Yeah" for "Jean Genie", as did The Sweet.

Aldyth Beltane said:

Velvet Goldmine!  I was in HEAVEN when that movie came out!  It was the film my 13 year old self craved back in the day!  I first saw Bowie on The Midnight Special, and for me it was exactly like when Arthur watched Brian Slade and screamed "That's me! That's me!!"  It was glorious!

It's interesting, based at least on my somewhat cursory reads of the responses here, how people are mentioning how different the public reception to Glam Rock was in America as compared to Britain (except for at Rodney's English Disco and a few other spots,) where it was beloved and produced many hits.  And yet, one of the things I dug about it was one of the aspects that drew me to garage rock as well, which was the emphasis on individuality, self-expression, rejection of the status quo, and yet was also a response against the kind of blandness that eclipsed garage when the more noodlely "hippie" sounds edged out the angry noisey rebellion of garage. (much in the same way that punk came along a few years later for the same reasons.)

Wow, I'm really digressing here.  This is the kind of stuff I could, and have talked about for hours.

MikeL said:

Watching the movie "Velvet Goldmine" turned me on to the New York Dolls and Iggy and the Stooges, and reading Barney Hoskyns' book, which was published in conjunction with the movie, got me into the Velvet Underground.  These are all bands that I had heard of many times before, but I just never got around to checking them out before.  I love your use of the word "gateway," because that happened to me too.

Aldyth Beltane said:

Oh absolutely a 70's Glam Rock fan!  Ziggy kind of saved my life, and was a gateway to Iggy, The Velvet Underground, the New York Dolls, and so on.  Also dig some of the bands that were pretty obscure in America like Mudd, so on.  I like the sweeter, teenybopper stuff when you get me in the right mood, and even though they were Glam as such, Be Bop Deluxe's Axe Victim is one of my all time fave albums.  For that matter, Marc Bolan and T.Tex were pretty damn inspirational for me too!

Glam, punk and psychedelia all came from garage. Even Bowie ripped off the Shadows Of Knight's "Oh Yeah" for "Jean Genie", as did The Sweet.

Aldyth Beltane said:

Velvet Goldmine!  I was in HEAVEN when that movie came out!  It was the film my 13 year old self craved back in the day!  I first saw Bowie on The Midnight Special, and for me it was exactly like when Arthur watched Brian Slade and screamed "That's me! That's me!!"  It was glorious!

It's interesting, based at least on my somewhat cursory reads of the responses here, how people are mentioning how different the public reception to Glam Rock was in America as compared to Britain (except for at Rodney's English Disco and a few other spots,) where it was beloved and produced many hits.  And yet, one of the things I dug about it was one of the aspects that drew me to garage rock as well, which was the emphasis on individuality, self-expression, rejection of the status quo, and yet was also a response against the kind of blandness that eclipsed garage when the more noodlely "hippie" sounds edged out the angry noisey rebellion of garage. (much in the same way that punk came along a few years later for the same reasons.)

Wow, I'm really digressing here.  This is the kind of stuff I could, and have talked about for hours.

MikeL said:

Watching the movie "Velvet Goldmine" turned me on to the New York Dolls and Iggy and the Stooges, and reading Barney Hoskyns' book, which was published in conjunction with the movie, got me into the Velvet Underground.  These are all bands that I had heard of many times before, but I just never got around to checking them out before.  I love your use of the word "gateway," because that happened to me too.

Aldyth Beltane said:

Oh absolutely a 70's Glam Rock fan!  Ziggy kind of saved my life, and was a gateway to Iggy, The Velvet Underground, the New York Dolls, and so on.  Also dig some of the bands that were pretty obscure in America like Mudd, so on.  I like the sweeter, teenybopper stuff when you get me in the right mood, and even though they were Glam as such, Be Bop Deluxe's Axe Victim is one of my all time fave albums.  For that matter, Marc Bolan and T.Tex were pretty damn inspirational for me too!

Velvet Goldmine!  I was in HEAVEN when that movie came out!  It was the film my 13 year old self craved back in the day!  I first saw Bowie on The Midnight Special, and for me it was exactly like when Arthur watched Brian Slade and screamed "That's me! That's me!!"  It was glorious!

It's interesting, based at least on my somewhat cursory reads of the responses here, how people are mentioning how different the public reception to Glam Rock was in America as compared to Britain (except for at Rodney's English Disco and a few other spots,) where it was beloved and produced many hits.  And yet, one of the things I dug about it was one of the aspects that drew me to garage rock as well, which was the emphasis on individuality, self-expression, rejection of the status quo, and yet was also a response against the kind of blandness that eclipsed garage when the more noodlely "hippie" sounds edged out the angry noisey rebellion of garage. (much in the same way that punk came along a few years later for the same reasons.)

Wow, I'm really digressing here.  This is the kind of stuff I could, and have talked about for hours.

MikeL said:

Watching the movie "Velvet Goldmine" turned me on to the New York Dolls and Iggy and the Stooges, and reading Barney Hoskyns' book, which was published in conjunction with the movie, got me into the Velvet Underground.  These are all bands that I had heard of many times before, but I just never got around to checking them out before.  I love your use of the word "gateway," because that happened to me too.

Aldyth Beltane said:

Oh absolutely a 70's Glam Rock fan!  Ziggy kind of saved my life, and was a gateway to Iggy, The Velvet Underground, the New York Dolls, and so on.  Also dig some of the bands that were pretty obscure in America like Mudd, so on.  I like the sweeter, teenybopper stuff when you get me in the right mood, and even though they were Glam as such, Be Bop Deluxe's Axe Victim is one of my all time fave albums.  For that matter, Marc Bolan and T.Tex were pretty damn inspirational for me too!

I love the VU, as they started it all. Glam, goth, punk, indie rock, heavy metal, industrial, etc, all come from these guys. I have a lot to thank Lou Reed and John Cale for, even influence on my writing. I've even written short stories that could've featured on their albums (Think of The Gift, which shows Reed's storytelling talent)

Here in England, it all fell into whether you were into Slade or T-Rex. The arty kids likes Bowie, Bolan, Roxy Music etc and the more "Proleish" (for want of a better word) were into Slade.  It's amazing what divisions in British youth culture there were expressed through music from the late 50's onwards.

MikeL said:

Watching the movie "Velvet Goldmine" turned me on to the New York Dolls and Iggy and the Stooges, and reading Barney Hoskyns' book, which was published in conjunction with the movie, got me into the Velvet Underground.  These are all bands that I had heard of many times before, but I just never got around to checking them out before.  I love your use of the word "gateway," because that happened to me too.

Aldyth Beltane said:

Oh absolutely a 70's Glam Rock fan!  Ziggy kind of saved my life, and was a gateway to Iggy, The Velvet Underground, the New York Dolls, and so on.  Also dig some of the bands that were pretty obscure in America like Mudd, so on.  I like the sweeter, teenybopper stuff when you get me in the right mood, and even though they were Glam as such, Be Bop Deluxe's Axe Victim is one of my all time fave albums.  For that matter, Marc Bolan and T.Tex were pretty damn inspirational for me too!

Underrated is the word , Mark George. I still like "Wild Thing" , but , it's nowhere NEAR their best song , in my estimation. There's a handfull of bands like them left , Pretty Things , Downliners Sect.....who still have that kind passion and aggression. You can see VERY recent Troggs footage on youtube , and know that they never lost it.

I asked Reg , how do you keep it fresh , after all these years? He said , we'll go on holiday for about a month , maybe , and when you come back , you just sort of GO for it , cos you've got NERVES , and 99 out of 100 times , even , it's like  that. We still like each other, personally , and we enjoy playing , and that's what keeps you going.

iF YOU DON'T LOVE IT , WHY BOTHER? AND , REG REALLY LOVED IT. It would be great if , on some level , he could get back to it, but , the bottom line is , just kicking Cancer's ass.

It CAN be done.

 
Mark George Harrison said:

A much underrated band The Troggs, shame they only get remembered for 'wild thing' which is treated as a novelty!

An even bigger shame is that it took Bryan Fucking Adams to make Reg any money(which he then apparently spent researching crop circles!)

Good luck and God bless ya Reg

A much underrated band The Troggs, shame they only get remembered for 'wild thing' which is treated as a novelty!

An even bigger shame is that it took Bryan Fucking Adams to make Reg any money(which he then apparently spent researching crop circles!)

Good luck and God bless ya Reg

I'm really sorry to hear that you never got to see them live.  Like I said, I didn't really take notice of them until 2004, when I first saw them at Little Steven's festival in NYC, but I got to see them live two more times after that.

doornail said:

That is horrible news!!!! The Chesterfield Kings were one of the most amazing garage rock bands ever.  I remember buying that first 45of the cover tune, I Ain't No Miracle Worker back in 81, and I never looked back.  The only thing was I was never able to see them live. 

I'm also very sorry to hear about this.  I really didn't get into them until I saw them in November 2006 during one of Little Steven's Rolling Rock tours.  I bought "Mindbending Sounds" shortly afterward from Wicked Cool Records, and later I bought "Psychedelic Sunrise," their first original release on Wicked Cool, which I really loved.  Later on I bought "Lets Go Get Stoned," which I also really liked, and again I have Little Steven to thank for that, because the band played several songs from that album on a live CD/DVD released by Wicked Cool, which made me want to get it.  I also saw them at Halloween a Go Go in 2007 at the Hawaiian Tropic Zone in NYC, and that was another great show.

Yes, I've heard stories from a former drummer of the Cynics that the CKs can be real assholes, especially Gregg Prevost, but it doesn't change the fact that they made some great music.

I'll bet Gregg Kostelich is giggling about this, because he's been on a warpath with the CKs for quite some time.

Sad news.  They were the first '80s revival band I got into way back when their first LP came out.  I was fortunate enough to see them in London in the mid-'80s and they were amazing.  I hung with them before and after that show and they were truly wonderful guys.  I owe my love of 60s garage/punk to them.  Time to go and spin "Hey Little Bird" xoxo

That is horrible news!!!! The Chesterfield Kings were one of the most amazing garage rock bands ever.  I remember buying that first 45of the cover tune, I Ain't No Miracle Worker back in 81, and I never looked back.  The only thing was I was never able to see them live. 

I bought a cd recently called Rare mod on Acid Jazz. There's alot of ropey tracks on it but the opening track by the Montana's called 'Open the Door' is a real stormer. Check it out!

yeah,there is improvement ,but there is still a LOOONG way to go:in 1992,when i bought my first PRS,the guys in the store(Paris) were outraged that i'd dare to buy a pricey all-hand made american guitar and even dared to ''advise'' me to opt for $200 fender rather than begin on a classy PRS.Ah.

i was told sooooooo many times,''oohh you play leads too?''ect,ect,that kind of crap.But it also has changed.Slowly but surely,and this is thank to cool guys who leave us alone doing our shit and people like Joan Jett (among others) who open doors and pave the way.

7jdh14 said:

Not a lady here, but I'm loving St. Vincent's guitar playing right now -- and I'm seeing other guys liking it too.

It's getting better, but there's still a ways to go.

Not a lady here, but I'm loving St. Vincent's guitar playing right now -- and I'm seeing other guys liking it too.

It's getting better, but there's still a ways to go.

Yup, CD out! http://www.bluecollardistro.com/thicksyruprecords/product_info.php?products_id=6814&cPath=1228_1229&store=#.TyLP9CMt2e1

What about tour dates?

Haven't seen anything about it.

LYCANTHIA FROM SYDNEY :)

What happened to the Tex-Reys?

Another louis jordan one:

Lazy Cowgirls - Goddamn Bottle

John,

  You are talking about..

Koffin Kats LIVE on a special Wrekking Hours edition of MOTOR LIVE DRIVE!!!  -  podcast available at WHFR.FM:   motor-2012-01-26.mp3