...In order for there not to have been a British Invasion , I think we need to consider (Not accept as a whole , if you don't want to.) other "What ifs" that are frequently brought up. I was talking to Michael Weldon of Psychotronic Video Magazine (Now website) , and he raised a very good point , and that is , what if Elvis had gone to Europe ? Colonel Tom Parker was an illegal immigrant from Holland , and lived in fear of extradition  , so , Elvis could never tour Europe , because The Colonel insisted on handling his affairs in person. The point Weldon made was , if Elvis had toured Europe in his prime , it would have caused a sensation , earlier on , making the British Invasion possibly unnecessary , or just different from what it turned out to be.....   But , you'd have to rule out other factors , like Chuck Berry not going to jail , Little Richard not going into the ministry , Jerry Lee Lewis not being crucified , Buddy Holly and Eddie Cochran not dying horribly , Alan Freed not being made an "Example" of , Gene Vincent's career and personal life not going into steady decline (Except in Europe for the former. Had the first wave of Rock'n'Roll made it into the 60's , the up and coming English bands might have had more of a Rockabilly affiliation , though George Harrison's Guitar sound had Carl Perkins , another casualty , written all over it.).

But , there was'nt something of the magnitude of Elvis happening in England , nor here , between '58 and '60 , so they had to create something of their own. But , something that, unlike Johnny Kidd , Vince Taylor , Billy Fury and even Cliff Richard , could be successfully imported anywhere. Why The Beatles ? They understood American music , and what was largely missing from it , as did The Rolling Stones. But , of course , they were coming from different angles. If The Beatles had any Blues roots , they seem to have kept them under their sleeves. Likewise , The Stones' Rockabilly influences seemed completely hidden , but , they were there. This is'nt the first time you've read this , but , Post - JFK assassination America needed something to take it out of it's Funk , and The Beatles were it. But , The Stones , and bands like them , had more to do with the "Hey , WE can do that !" spirit that ushered in thousands of what we now call Garage Bands.   I could imagine young kids wanting  to start bands found The Beatles' vocal phrasing just as difficult as they would have The Beach Boys' high pitched nods to The Four Freshmen. Without The British Invasion , things would have been very different on both sides of The Atlantic. We may have had Motown , Girl Groups , Surf music , and the like , but , only Paul Revere and The Raiders , The Byrds , and a few others , were holding down the fort , armed with guitars , by '65. Only a handful of the great Garage bands had hits , and most of them only had only one , or maybe two. Perhaps , it did'nt matter. Youth had had it's say.

if the british invasion never happened,would vox instruments be as popular? and would as many groups be using combo organs?

Would folk rock have happened without the british invasion? What would have the byrds done without a beatle beat to put with the pete seeger tunes? Would white american teenagers still be into blues and soul, unless they heard the stones do those songs first?

there would probably be less brian jones hairstyles around too. In fact the whole stage presentation of dressing up like that, and standing there playing, in that reserved british way, is what really seperates the brit invasion groups from the 50s rock and rollers.

Well if the british invasion hadn't been than it would not be lot of rock n roll culture in my country Iceland.Maybe it has less to do with the U.S. People who groove up in this time like my parents look at the british invasion as a religion or something. You were a Beatle or Stoney nothing less or more. Because of our geographical isolation we only got the Major U.S artists on the radio these days. People were much more informed about what was happening in the UK. 

Wow, what a fucked up alternate reality that would be!  "Hello, Cleveland!!  Are you ready to skiffle?!!"

Nick X said:

Bob Dylan, rather than the Beach Boys would be the act everyone would try to emulate, which would probably have evolved into a lot of byrds-y and Donovan like folk rock...which kinda did happen.

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

what was the real state of rock and roll in the us immediately pre  invasion? i don't think that the beach boys would have inspired many kids to start a band. that singin' was way too hard. by styalistic plateau do you meant stagnant? cause a lot of the end of swing days sounds to us like strictly going through the motions and doing what is expected.

Lendell Ervin said:

I absolutely agree with you, Nick. I'm merely posing the question.  If a British Invasion never took place what would our musical landscape sound like?  Would rock n roll have hit a prolonged stylistic plateau the same way swing and big band did a generation before?  Would a new sound come out of some over looked pocket of the country?

Nick X said:

Loe Reed once said the British shouldn't make rock n roll and while I can imagine sympathizing with the beatles ubiquitous captivation, I'm glad the British invasion happened. Some regional diversity is what America needed after the good ol commie-fearin' 50s. I also think that, while America was making raw, wild rock n roll before England, English bands like the stones, kinks and who brought a uniquely dismissive and disaffected attitude to rock that was very punk rock. The beatles  may have seemed like the whole of the British invasion to someone who was there but there really was an diversity of bands on either side of the Atlantic and even more r&b rooted rebellions against the beatles in the uk. You can definitely hear how the stones influenced the chocolate watchband, the remains, stooges, new York dolls, etc. Let's keep the British invasion.

Yes. Stagnant.  By 1963 it was Bubble Gum, Teen Idol, Party Records, Doo-Wop, Surf.  There was the beginnings of a Folk movement and Motown was becoming a major player.  Most of the original acts had either died tragically, or had abandoned the genre.

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

what was the real state of rock and roll in the us immediately pre  invasion? i don't think that the beach boys would have inspired many kids to start a band. that singin' was way too hard. by styalistic plateau do you meant stagnant? cause a lot of the end of swing days sounds to us like strictly going through the motions and doing what is expected.

Lendell Ervin said:

I absolutely agree with you, Nick. I'm merely posing the question.  If a British Invasion never took place what would our musical landscape sound like?  Would rock n roll have hit a prolonged stylistic plateau the same way swing and big band did a generation before?  Would a new sound come out of some over looked pocket of the country?

Nick X said:

Loe Reed once said the British shouldn't make rock n roll and while I can imagine sympathizing with the beatles ubiquitous captivation, I'm glad the British invasion happened. Some regional diversity is what America needed after the good ol commie-fearin' 50s. I also think that, while America was making raw, wild rock n roll before England, English bands like the stones, kinks and who brought a uniquely dismissive and disaffected attitude to rock that was very punk rock. The beatles  may have seemed like the whole of the British invasion to someone who was there but there really was an diversity of bands on either side of the Atlantic and even more r&b rooted rebellions against the beatles in the uk. You can definitely hear how the stones influenced the chocolate watchband, the remains, stooges, new York dolls, etc. Let's keep the British invasion.

Bob Dylan, rather than the Beach Boys would be the act everyone would try to emulate, which would probably have evolved into a lot of byrds-y and Donovan like folk rock...which kinda did happen.

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

what was the real state of rock and roll in the us immediately pre  invasion? i don't think that the beach boys would have inspired many kids to start a band. that singin' was way too hard. by styalistic plateau do you meant stagnant? cause a lot of the end of swing days sounds to us like strictly going through the motions and doing what is expected.

Lendell Ervin said:

I absolutely agree with you, Nick. I'm merely posing the question.  If a British Invasion never took place what would our musical landscape sound like?  Would rock n roll have hit a prolonged stylistic plateau the same way swing and big band did a generation before?  Would a new sound come out of some over looked pocket of the country?

Nick X said:

Loe Reed once said the British shouldn't make rock n roll and while I can imagine sympathizing with the beatles ubiquitous captivation, I'm glad the British invasion happened. Some regional diversity is what America needed after the good ol commie-fearin' 50s. I also think that, while America was making raw, wild rock n roll before England, English bands like the stones, kinks and who brought a uniquely dismissive and disaffected attitude to rock that was very punk rock. The beatles  may have seemed like the whole of the British invasion to someone who was there but there really was an diversity of bands on either side of the Atlantic and even more r&b rooted rebellions against the beatles in the uk. You can definitely hear how the stones influenced the chocolate watchband, the remains, stooges, new York dolls, etc. Let's keep the British invasion.

what was the real state of rock and roll in the us immediately pre  invasion? i don't think that the beach boys would have inspired many kids to start a band. that singin' was way too hard. by styalistic plateau do you meant stagnant? cause a lot of the end of swing days sounds to us like strictly going through the motions and doing what is expected.

Lendell Ervin said:

I absolutely agree with you, Nick. I'm merely posing the question.  If a British Invasion never took place what would our musical landscape sound like?  Would rock n roll have hit a prolonged stylistic plateau the same way swing and big band did a generation before?  Would a new sound come out of some over looked pocket of the country?

Nick X said:

Loe Reed once said the British shouldn't make rock n roll and while I can imagine sympathizing with the beatles ubiquitous captivation, I'm glad the British invasion happened. Some regional diversity is what America needed after the good ol commie-fearin' 50s. I also think that, while America was making raw, wild rock n roll before England, English bands like the stones, kinks and who brought a uniquely dismissive and disaffected attitude to rock that was very punk rock. The beatles  may have seemed like the whole of the British invasion to someone who was there but there really was an diversity of bands on either side of the Atlantic and even more r&b rooted rebellions against the beatles in the uk. You can definitely hear how the stones influenced the chocolate watchband, the remains, stooges, new York dolls, etc. Let's keep the British invasion.

I absolutely agree with you, Nick. I'm merely posing the question.  If a British Invasion never took place what would our musical landscape sound like?  Would rock n roll have hit a prolonged stylistic plateau the same way swing and big band did a generation before?  Would a new sound come out of some over looked pocket of the country?

Nick X said:

Loe Reed once said the British shouldn't make rock n roll and while I can imagine sympathizing with the beatles ubiquitous captivation, I'm glad the British invasion happened. Some regional diversity is what America needed after the good ol commie-fearin' 50s. I also think that, while America was making raw, wild rock n roll before England, English bands like the stones, kinks and who brought a uniquely dismissive and disaffected attitude to rock that was very punk rock. The beatles  may have seemed like the whole of the British invasion to someone who was there but there really was an diversity of bands on either side of the Atlantic and even more r&b rooted rebellions against the beatles in the uk. You can definitely hear how the stones influenced the chocolate watchband, the remains, stooges, new York dolls, etc. Let's keep the British invasion.

love vu but the old saw about everyone who bought the 1st album starting a band is probably more true about the early stones albums. that nasty edge and seeming simplicity and jagger's yellin' made everybody think they could do it.

Nick X said:

Loe Reed once said the British shouldn't make rock n roll and while I can imagine sympathizing with the beatles ubiquitous captivation, I'm glad the British invasion happened. Some regional diversity is what America needed after the good ol commie-fearin' 50s. I also think that, while America was making raw, wild rock n roll before England, English bands like the stones, kinks and who brought a uniquely dismissive and disaffected attitude to rock that was very punk rock. The beatles  may have seemed like the whole of the British invasion to someone who was there but there really was an diversity of bands on either side of the Atlantic and even more r&b rooted rebellions against the beatles in the uk. You can definitely hear how the stones influenced the chocolate watchband, the remains, stooges, new York dolls, etc. Let's keep the British invasion.

*meant to say I can sympathize with bot liking the beatles during their early days. Not sure how to edit that on my phone.

Nick X said:

Loe Reed once said the British shouldn't make rock n roll and while I can imagine sympathizing with the beatles ubiquitous captivation, I'm glad the British invasion happened. Some regional diversity is what America needed after the good ol commie-fearin' 50s. I also think that, while America was making raw, wild rock n roll before England, English bands like the stones, kinks and who brought a uniquely dismissive and disaffected attitude to rock that was very punk rock. The beatles  may have seemed like the whole of the British invasion to someone who was there but there really was an diversity of bands on either side of the Atlantic and even more r&b rooted rebellions against the beatles in the uk. You can definitely hear how the stones influenced the chocolate watchband, the remains, stooges, new York dolls, etc. Let's keep the British invasion.

Loe Reed once said the British shouldn't make rock n roll and while I can imagine sympathizing with the beatles ubiquitous captivation, I'm glad the British invasion happened. Some regional diversity is what America needed after the good ol commie-fearin' 50s. I also think that, while America was making raw, wild rock n roll before England, English bands like the stones, kinks and who brought a uniquely dismissive and disaffected attitude to rock that was very punk rock. The beatles  may have seemed like the whole of the British invasion to someone who was there but there really was an diversity of bands on either side of the Atlantic and even more r&b rooted rebellions against the beatles in the uk. You can definitely hear how the stones influenced the chocolate watchband, the remains, stooges, new York dolls, etc. Let's keep the British invasion.

we think the first 3 stones albums are the basic template of "classic" garage. can't deal with the beatles objectively as we have no use for them. other than to not care for that is.

I was reading the replies in the "Is Garage Trendy?" discussion when I came a cross an exchange between Mole and Frank N. Stroud...

Frank N. Stroud said,

"I guess a lot of the meat of this discussion depends on what you consider garage and what you don't.

In my humble opinion, there is more to garage than just influences and all garage did not descend from the 60s British Invasion (which I think (Rock History Blasphemy Warning) we could have lived without in America) as many would have us believe. Buddy Holly was recording his songs (played in a garage) in the fifties using Lo-fi equipment and his drummer thumping a cardboard box on Not Fade Away."

And then Mole replied,

"Hey come on, you couldn't have lived without the British Invasion!!! The mood of your country at the time dictated it...how come no US band blew everyone away in late '63/early '64 to the same extent that the Beatles et al did? I'm not on some kind of nationalist trip, I'm not "proud" to be English [merely an accident of birth - i had no say in the matter!!], just saying that for a number of reasons and factors, the time was right for the Beat groups to find their place in the US. Wow, you WOULD NOT have the garage explosion of 65/66 without it!! A broad generalisation, but EVERY ONE of those cats was influenced by the English groups - OK, a fair point that they were bringing America's rich musical heritage back home in a sense [there's no doubt that 'rock n roll' is an American movement], but bring it they sure did."

It's 1964.  The Kingsmen have released "Louie, Louie".  The Beach Boys and surf are big. And, the Girl Groups are in full swing. So, what if?

Reg Presley said Buddy Holly and The Crickets were the first "Gare - edge" band in his esimation....You also had Link Wray and The Wraymen and The Wailers
, as well , active before Elvis even went into the army.
Lendell Ervin said:

This poses an interesting questions.  What if the British Invasion never happened?  I have started a thread to explore this topic.

What if the British Invasion never happened?

 

Mole said:

Hey come on, you couldn't have lived without the British Invasion!!! The mood of your country at the time dictated it...how come no US band blew everyone away in late '63/early '64 to the same extent that the Beatles et al did? I'm not on some kind of nationalist trip, I'm not "proud" to be English [merely an accident of birth - i had no say in the matter!!], just saying that for a number of reasons and factors, the time was right for the Beat groups to find their place in the US. Wow, you WOULD NOT have the garage explosion of 65/66 without it!! A broad generalisation, but EVERY ONE of those cats was influenced by the English groups - OK, a fair point that they were bringing America's rich musical heritage back home in a sense [there's no doubt that 'rock n roll' is an American movement], but bring it they sure did.

Frank N. Stroud said:

I guess a lot of the meat of this discussion depends on what you consider garage and what you don't.

In my humble opinion, there is more to garage than just influences and all garage did not descend from the 60s British Invasion (which I think (Rock History Blasphemy Warning) we could have lived without in America) as many would have us believe. Buddy Holly was recording his songs (played in a garage) in the fifties using Lo-fi equipment and his drummer thumping a cardboard box on Not Fade Away.

For my part, if it's too clean,polished and processed, it ain't garage.

I call my music "Garage" cause that's where I write it, play it and often record it. I realize too, that the conventional definition of the "G" word probably means something different to most people.   

 

This poses an interesting questions.  What if the British Invasion never happened?  I have started a thread to explore this topic.

What if the British Invasion never happened?

Mole said:

Hey come on, you couldn't have lived without the British Invasion!!! The mood of your country at the time dictated it...how come no US band blew everyone away in late '63/early '64 to the same extent that the Beatles et al did? I'm not on some kind of nationalist trip, I'm not "proud" to be English [merely an accident of birth - i had no say in the matter!!], just saying that for a number of reasons and factors, the time was right for the Beat groups to find their place in the US. Wow, you WOULD NOT have the garage explosion of 65/66 without it!! A broad generalisation, but EVERY ONE of those cats was influenced by the English groups - OK, a fair point that they were bringing America's rich musical heritage back home in a sense [there's no doubt that 'rock n roll' is an American movement], but bring it they sure did.

Frank N. Stroud said:

I guess a lot of the meat of this discussion depends on what you consider garage and what you don't.

In my humble opinion, there is more to garage than just influences and all garage did not descend from the 60s British Invasion (which I think (Rock History Blasphemy Warning) we could have lived without in America) as many would have us believe. Buddy Holly was recording his songs (played in a garage) in the fifties using Lo-fi equipment and his drummer thumping a cardboard box on Not Fade Away.

For my part, if it's too clean,polished and processed, it ain't garage.

I call my music "Garage" cause that's where I write it, play it and often record it. I realize too, that the conventional definition of the "G" word probably means something different to most people.   

 

Yeah , it would have been...Dave's wife told me he literally had to carry a guitar with him , everywhere he went , because people would stop him and ask him to sing a song , all the time. He was the lone monk who really wanted to be a star , and , on a local level , he was , before the monks were re - discovered (I mean , discovered.), and , then , when the band reformed , he got the chance to "Mach Schau" and really be what he always wanted to be , a Rock'n'Roll Star.

joey fuckup said:

WOW! That would have been cool if that show had happened, though!

John Battles said:

Joey , That's pretty cool. When SCOTS played at the first Estrus Shock (I think it was .) , the late , great , prince among men , Dave Day , of the monks , was tentatively set to do his regular Elvis act as "Elvismonk", with Southern Culture backing him. It did'nt happen , but , my Editor at Roctober , Jake Austen , was looking for him outside the venue (This was pre - monks reunion , but , they'd already met.) , and showed some people a current photo , asking if they'd seen him. A French guy said he'd been there and gone , signed a few autographs and left. Jake asked , how was he dressed? "HE HAD ON FULL MONKS COSTUME !!!" .

Decided to go a different route with the Halloween show this year with nothing but songs about h-e-double-hockey-stick. Bed music courtesy of the Orgy of the Dead soundtrack. Enjoy!

Download or stream the entire Oct. 28 show right here.

Gonna Raise Hell – Cheap Trick
Soul Brothers in Heaven & Hell – Andre Williams

Your Pretty Face is Going to Hell – Iggy & the Stooges
Hell & What It Is – Rev. Emmett Dickinson
Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers – ZZ Top
Hell City Hell – The Supersuckers
Hell – The Sixty-Niners

One Hell of a Weekend – Hank Thompson
Raisin’ Hell – Run-DMC
Hell Yes, I Cheated – Johnny Adams

Snowball in Hell – They Might Be Giants
You Beat the Hell Out of Me – The Motors
Hell of It – Chris Knox

Local Lunchbox
I’m Gonna Burn in Hell, Hallelujah – The Mighty Lumberhorn
Go to Hell – Couch Flambeau
Living Hell – The Spanic Boys

Straight to Hell – The Booze
It Must Be Hell – The Rolling Stones
Hayride to Hell – Hoodoo Gurus
Hellbound Train – The Lumberjack
Hell Raiser – Sweet

Aloha From Hell – The Cramps
Whiskey Bent & Hell Bound – Hank Williams Jr.
Black Diamond Express to Hell Part I- Rev. A.W. Nix

Hell or High Water – Johnny Dowd
War is Hell – Hugh X. Lewis
Cold in Hell – the Misfits
Solid Gold Hell – The Scientists

Back in Hell – Delaney Davidson
Hellhound On My Trail – Robert Johnson
Truck Drivers Hell – Sonny Cole
Burning Hell – The Fleshtones
Hell Hath No Fury – The M-80s

Burning in Hell – David Childers & the Modern Don Juans
Burning Hell – John Lee Hooker
Hell’s Roof – The Waco Brothers
Just for the Hell of It – Slim Dunlap
Hell Blues – The Bassholes
Hell’s Gate – Jason & the Scorchers
Raisin’ Hell – Wild Jimmy Spruill

Caitlin Rose live in the studio

Circle in Hell – The Golden Boys
Lovers Hell – Merle Kilgore

Love the photo slideshow  and of course the DRAMA!!!! tee hee!! the discussions have been great and the podcasts..what don't I like my lack of skill to post my songs on the comp link and my lack of ability to download podcasts on to my phone which is an mp3 player!!!

that's something people take for granted. how cool that you point it out as your favorite thing.

The Hashbrowns said:

my (craig) favorite thing about this website is all the amazing art the users share. garagepunk is a fine collection of talented people.

my (craig) favorite thing about this website is all the amazing art the users share. garagepunk is a fine collection of talented people.

I mean if you want to find out what's going on at Panic Room (Essen) they have a nasty myspace site. And I don't think they update it that regularly, so that it's often easier for me to walk past it on the way to clients than to look on the site. The "bloody" wouldn't tell you that I live in Essen though as I'm an ex-pat.

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

hi mike,

 what is your city? from the "bloody" we bet it ain't tulsa! a bit confused as to how the bars are tuned into myspace or the way that a bar could be tuned into garage punk hideout. do you mean that their websites feature music or bands from myspace?

Mike Humsgreen said:

It's all about the podcasts, those things are where I learn about cool new (to me) music. It's a bit of a shame though that the bars in my city aren't tuned into this site, instead they are on myspace which grinds my computer to a halt every time I use the bloody thing.

It was the music that drew me here initially although most of the people I talk to on the 'net I met through here as well. 

I don't go out too much, but if I hit a rockabilly, punk, etc. store or bar I'm amazed that they aren't playing stuff from here or most haven't necessarily heard of it. We proud garage soldiers should correct this. Start with some serious word o' mouth and if that don't work jump behind the counters and turn the digital station. 

The only negative I could say is that the frequent, on topic (non spam) discussion around here seems to only be limited to a handful of members, I mean, there is obviously a lot information shared between all of us but I belonged to a garage punk forum several years ago (I'm not sure about the relation) and all the forums, regular discussion and promotion, moved REALLY fast.

Well chosen.

Nick X said:

This may be more R&B than garage but, eh, garage wasn't even a thing in the 60s, it's all rock n roll:

 

This may be more R&B than garage but, eh, garage wasn't even a thing in the 60s, it's all rock n roll: