Maybe the newly released White House tapes featuring the ageless wisdom of Richard Nixon explains why not many women are drawn to punk:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/that-time-richard-nixon-didn-t-know-women-were-allowed-to-swear-20140710

Nixon: I mean, you've got to stop at a certain point. Why is it that the girls don't swear? Because a man, when he swears, people can't tolerate a girl who is a—

Haldeman: Girls do swear.

Nixon: Huh?

Haldeman: They do now.

Nixon: Oh, they do now? But, nevertheless, it removes something from them. They don't even realize it. A man drunk, and a man who swears, people will tolerate and say that's a sign of masculinity or some other damn thing. We all do it. We all swear. But you show me a girl that swears and I'll show you an awful unattractive person. 

melissa scott said:

You don't need a penis to play a guitar. Well, not if you're playing right anyway...

Maybe that's been my problem

BTW:   I meant to say , The Brood were not only one of the best all - female Garage bands , but , one of the best GARAGE bands (In general).....   However , they did'nt sound like ass , so , I guess , like Girlschool (Whom I would'nt really call "Metal" , even if some of their songs bore an E chord overkill pattern.) , they'll go largely ignored or forgotten , but , they did their thing , and seemed to really enjoy it.

My sad old carcass has seen a lot of trends change , sometimes for the better. In the early 80's , I started seeing more women getting involved , as Musicians  (Not just tambourine beatin' Singers.) in "Punk" , and/or Underground music that , maybe , did'nt fall under that banner.  But , there were always women involved , even if there were also men , extremely uptight about their masculinity , that stood in their way.....People seem a lot less put off , today , by seeing and hearing female musicians in postions of prominence. 

But , I agree with the idea of being a Musician , first...

At the height of the Riot Grrrl movement , Chris Horne from The Brood ( Not only one of the best Garage bands of the last 30 years , but one of the best GARAGE bands .) told me  , " They pair us off with other female bands on these bills , and sometimes,  it does'nt work.  I have to tell people we're not an all - woman band , but , an all - girl band. It's all right to be an all - girl band. Some of these bands that put being women first , you can't listen to them , they're that bad....

You don't need a penis to play a guitar. Well, not if you're playing right anyway...

Matt said:

I guess I could see your point in tech industry as I hear the same things about history majors, it too, being a male dominated field of study—though I think more and more women are becoming respected and renowned historians, which is nice. And not just in female-focused historical topics. I have about as many female profs as male, but I do believe that had I attended to school ten years ago, things would have been different. 

However in "punk" music I don't notice this as much, or at all to be honest. It could be just the local scene I am involved in? I recently completed a zine which I interviewed three bands, all female singers. This was not intentional, in fact I didn't think about it until I started the third interview, then I realized they were all female fronted bands. It just happened to be three bands I've been into recently. Shows I attend seem to be about 50/50 as far as attendance in concerned. I have so many girl friends (not girlfriends) that are in bands I can't even begin to name them all. Its never even a discussion, it's just a scene we all enjoy. Maybe this is a regional scene.

Thinking back to when I lived in the states, I don't recall, as many women being involved, but this also could have been a regional issue (not an American issue). It could be that there are so many females in the punk scene here in Toronto/ Montreal that it inspires other girls to get involved. As it is now, I don't think anybody even thinks about female involvement, cause it's just not an issue. 

I do realize it has not always been like this. Rock 'n' Roll has historically been a male dominated field and I have much admiration for the trailblazers from Etta James to Joan Jett. And I don't think that sexism is NOT an issue. Much like having a black president did not end racism. That's obviously an ignorant way of thinking. I do think that women today have lots of other women playing punk to look up to and any scene worth being involved in is fully supportive of female involvement. 

 

Just an FYI, I wasn't arguing as much as adding perspective from this angle. 

That's really awesome that you interviewed those women AS musicians and not "women musicians." Normalizing it with things like that is a great step to it being normal for everyone. It sounds like you have different scenery and that's cool. I've seen womenin music treated pretty shitty though. 

This is a super cool article that both men and women and musicians and not musicians should read. (I mean everyone.)

Not All Women: A Reflection On Being A Musician and Female

I guess I could see your point in tech industry as I hear the same things about history majors, it too, being a male dominated field of study—though I think more and more women are becoming respected and renowned historians, which is nice. And not just in female-focused historical topics. I have about as many female profs as male, but I do believe that had I attended to school ten years ago, things would have been different. 

However in "punk" music I don't notice this as much, or at all to be honest. It could be just the local scene I am involved in? I recently completed a zine which I interviewed three bands, all female singers. This was not intentional, in fact I didn't think about it until I started the third interview, then I realized they were all female fronted bands. It just happened to be three bands I've been into recently. Shows I attend seem to be about 50/50 as far as attendance in concerned. I have so many girl friends (not girlfriends) that are in bands I can't even begin to name them all. Its never even a discussion, it's just a scene we all enjoy. Maybe this is a regional scene.

Thinking back to when I lived in the states, I don't recall, as many women being involved, but this also could have been a regional issue (not an American issue). It could be that there are so many females in the punk scene here in Toronto/ Montreal that it inspires other girls to get involved. As it is now, I don't think anybody even thinks about female involvement, cause it's just not an issue. 

I do realize it has not always been like this. Rock 'n' Roll has historically been a male dominated field and I have much admiration for the trailblazers from Etta James to Joan Jett. And I don't think that sexism is NOT an issue. Much like having a black president did not end racism. That's obviously an ignorant way of thinking. I do think that women today have lots of other women playing punk to look up to and any scene worth being involved in is fully supportive of female involvement. 

Matt said:

Interesting article. I would lean more towards Russle-Smith's argument though. First off, I wouldn't even consider Warped or Guitar hero or whatever the mag is called punk. So no girls in that doesn't equate to no girls in punk. Secondly I would say there are not as many women in punk because not as many women play punk music, simple as that. Maybe some of the more mocho hardcore scenes push women out, but who wants to be involved in that shit anyway? There are lots of hardcore bands (White Lung mentioned above, Pretty Boys, Disgusting Body, Anti-Vibes, Libyans..etc) that are all female or female fronted hardcore. 

As for the history of punk, I've always loved X-Ray Specs, Slits, Bags, Neo Boys, Runaways, Eve Libertine in Crass..etc. They seem to be prominent in the books and films I've seen on punk. I've seen the Slits in several documentaries. All LA scene books talk about the Bags. For the record, Alice Bag is one of the most bad ass punk singers of all time. 

I'm all for more girls being involved, the more the merrier, I love girls. However, I don't feel they are overlooked or pushed aside. I do think some bands are overlooked, like Girlschool. I feel they don't get the credit they deserve for the amount of awesome music they put out. However, I could probably name dozens of groups that are all guys who don't get the credit they deserve either.  

 

I hear a lot of similar words and opinions about women in the tech industry. Specifically that not many women pursue a technical education and therefore not many women apply for technical jobs. But why is that? Is it because we are all raised with the notion that tech is a more male dominated field? Yep! Whether you realize it or not, we're primed for that from an early age. I was always encouraged to take classes and participate in extracurricular activities that are more stereotypically feminine, like language arts or crafts, as opposed to my male peers being encouraged to take high level math and take computers apart. The girls that do, are often outnumbered, met with resistance, and have a rough time in the "boys club" from this early age and if they actually make it to pursuing a related career. 

This also happens in the music scene. I guarantee if there are less women present in any kind of field or scene, it's because of a combination of many things that make them feel inadequate or less welcome. 

When was the last time anyone saw any kind of formal commemoration specifically highlighting males in the music industry? Especially white males? Other than satire, probably never. Because it's a given. Imagine stuff like "Top 10 Dudes in Punk" or "The Most Underrated White Males in Music History." Also, other than the actual "genre" of "boy bands," does anyone ever refer to a "guy band" like they do a "girl band?" No... because when men make music, it's just a BAND!

This conversation is too heavy for an article or a forum to do it justice. However, this hilarious Twitter exchange happened between Neko Case and Playboy recently. It's worth 5 minutes of your time. 

What Playboy's Sexist Article About Neko Case Really Says About Women in Music

"IM NOT A FUCKING "WOMAN IN MUSIC", IM A FUCKING MUSICIAN IN MUSIC!"
- Neko Case

Hmmmm. Got a few years for this one? I guess I'd sum it up by saying why should music be any different than any other public field of endeavour. Music and its biz-ness isn't any more or less sexist than any other field. One could argue it is less so on some counts -- think of all the divas who've made squillions compared to CEO's and sooner, like Diana Ross, etc... I dunno. As for punk, I'd argue punk made way for far more women in rock than not if not for the DIY aspect of the whole 'endeavour.' Fuck it, let's just dance.

Punk's not the only genre of music guilty here. While driving to work yesterday listening to a jazz show, it spawned on me how few women, other than vocalists, there are in jazz. Lil Armstrong, Alice Coltrane ... Who else?

Interesting article. I would lean more towards Russle-Smith's argument though. First off, I wouldn't even consider Warped or Guitar hero or whatever the mag is called punk. So no girls in that doesn't equate to no girls in punk. Secondly I would say there are not as many women in punk because not as many women play punk music, simple as that. Maybe some of the more mocho hardcore scenes push women out, but who wants to be involved in that shit anyway? There are lots of hardcore bands (White Lung mentioned above, Pretty Boys, Disgusting Body, Anti-Vibes, Libyans..etc) that are all female or female fronted hardcore. 

As for the history of punk, I've always loved X-Ray Specs, Slits, Bags, Neo Boys, Runaways, Eve Libertine in Crass..etc. They seem to be prominent in the books and films I've seen on punk. I've seen the Slits in several documentaries. All LA scene books talk about the Bags. For the record, Alice Bag is one of the most bad ass punk singers of all time. 

I'm all for more girls being involved, the more the merrier, I love girls. However, I don't feel they are overlooked or pushed aside. I do think some bands are overlooked, like Girlschool. I feel they don't get the credit they deserve for the amount of awesome music they put out. However, I could probably name dozens of groups that are all guys who don't get the credit they deserve either.  

Thank you for your response!

Finally, I have two zines... One trade with Boo Hooray and one on Internet... If someone is interested...

They are probably long gone now, but did you try writing direct? I traded a zine for my copy. 

køpper said:

Matt said:

Hey Kopper,

I'm one of these people who are here one day and gone the next for weeks at a time. This is probably mostly due to school and being busy. I've never been on Facebook, Instagram, or whatever is hot these days. I do frequent Terminal Boredom a lot. I even used to be on the old old Garage Punk Message board many years ago. 

One thing I notice here on the forums is there is not a lot of participation. Sometimes I click on topics and nothing has changed for days or weeks. I think maybe narrowing the topics down a bit to be more inclusive may help. Such as music and non-music. Instead of bouncing back between punk, garage, new music..etc. Politics, books, and whatever else could be non-music. Sometimes I don't feel like looking in every thread to see if something interesting is posted, but if I could just look in a couple, I may see something I was not expecting to see and get involved in a conversation. 

I'm not trying to put down the way you have it going on here. I think the site is great and like coming to check it out. This is just an idea, which I thought may stimulate more conversation. 

 

Thanks for the thoughts, Matt! I kind of agree with you that there may just be too many forums here. The reason I set it up this way was because this was the way it was set up originally, back when it was a phpBB message board (which is what you remember). I'll definitely considering narrowing these down a bit, though. I think you make a good point.

The easier it is to scan through topics and the less clicks it takes, the more activity there will probably be. 

Personally, I'm like Matt. I'm an on/off user. When I am on the site, I LOVE getting lost in these obscure bands. Some of em are downright fantastic. I would be extremely interested in a FEATURED BAND OF THE WEEK topic or something (if this is already here, I'm sorry and have no idea how I could've missed it other than I'm a convict and a neanderthal). Like include an interview, bio, history, review, maybe a FREE DOWNLOAD???? EH??? I would log onto this site more frequently just to read this post.

It would encourage bands to be active AND maybe bring a little more traffic. Like the band may post on facebook or whatever "Hey, we're the GaragePunk band of the week! Check out this article and dowload a free copy of this song!"

It could be simply done if someone were able to dedicate time to a small column. Just an idea! But still, kopper, love the site! I miss some of the old podcasts, too! Some of em came out in rapid-fire! It was so exciting!!!

Matt said:

Also, maybe I am missing this, but didn't there used to be a "trading post?" Maybe a section that was dedicated to the buying and selling of records. People could sell directly to each other via set sales, list their ebay/ discogs pages with records for sale. 

There's no need for a "Trading Post" group or forum when we offer FREE classifieds! Just click on "Classifieds" in the menu on the left. Same thing... only better.

Thanks.

Matt said:

Hey Kopper,

I'm one of these people who are here one day and gone the next for weeks at a time. This is probably mostly due to school and being busy. I've never been on Facebook, Instagram, or whatever is hot these days. I do frequent Terminal Boredom a lot. I even used to be on the old old Garage Punk Message board many years ago. 

One thing I notice here on the forums is there is not a lot of participation. Sometimes I click on topics and nothing has changed for days or weeks. I think maybe narrowing the topics down a bit to be more inclusive may help. Such as music and non-music. Instead of bouncing back between punk, garage, new music..etc. Politics, books, and whatever else could be non-music. Sometimes I don't feel like looking in every thread to see if something interesting is posted, but if I could just look in a couple, I may see something I was not expecting to see and get involved in a conversation. 

I'm not trying to put down the way you have it going on here. I think the site is great and like coming to check it out. This is just an idea, which I thought may stimulate more conversation. 

 

Thanks for the thoughts, Matt! I kind of agree with you that there may just be too many forums here. The reason I set it up this way was because this was the way it was set up originally, back when it was a phpBB message board (which is what you remember). I'll definitely considering narrowing these down a bit, though. I think you make a good point.

Also, maybe I am missing this, but didn't there used to be a "trading post?" Maybe a section that was dedicated to the buying and selling of records. People could sell directly to each other via set sales, list their ebay/ discogs pages with records for sale. 

Hey Kopper,

I'm one of these people who are here one day and gone the next for weeks at a time. This is probably mostly due to school and being busy. I've never been on Facebook, Instagram, or whatever is hot these days. I do frequent Terminal Boredom a lot. I even used to be on the old old Garage Punk Message board many years ago. 

One thing I notice here on the forums is there is not a lot of participation. Sometimes I click on topics and nothing has changed for days or weeks. I think maybe narrowing the topics down a bit to be more inclusive may help. Such as music and non-music. Instead of bouncing back between punk, garage, new music..etc. Politics, books, and whatever else could be non-music. Sometimes I don't feel like looking in every thread to see if something interesting is posted, but if I could just look in a couple, I may see something I was not expecting to see and get involved in a conversation. 

I'm not trying to put down the way you have it going on here. I think the site is great and like coming to check it out. This is just an idea, which I thought may stimulate more conversation. 

THE TRIP! CANADA DAY 2014 SPECIAL!

This week on the Trip!  Greg plays a musical tribute to the Great White North for a belated Canada Day show!  100% Canadian rock and roll! Listen here:  http://cjamlog1.cjam.ca/mp3dirnew/381-The_Trip-20140706-0000-t1404601200.mp3

The setlist: 

the mongols- nautoloid reef
rockadrome- royal American twentieth century blues
the del-gators- car troubles
the haunted- 8 o'clock this morning
the big town boys- it was i
steppenwolf- the pusher
the falcons- restless
paul anka- a steel guitar and a glass of wine
timber timbre- beat the drum slowly
the shondells- don't put me down
lost patrol- commanche
the good feeling- tale of a man
the vindicators- thinking of birds
atomic 7- your ironic t-shirt
nash the slash- normal
the action- t.v.'s on the blink
les lutins- laissez-nous vivre
the pack a.d.- 1880
maow- party tonite!
maow- cat's meow
the hellbound hepcats- pyronecrophiliac
the blue stones- i'm a stereo

I listened to the Exploding Hearts - Guitar Romantic for the first time in a few years the other day. When this album first came out, we blasted it out doors to several BBQs, therefore it will always make me think of summer. 

Fe Fi Fo Fums single, Summertime is a great song! 

Kim Fowley - the Trip, cause it starts off with "It's summertime kiddies and it's time to take a trip.''

Sumertime At the Beach by the Sugar Freaks is another favourite.

I Can Hear the Grass Grow by the Move seems summery 

See Emily Play and Arnold Lane, maybe because the videos are shot outdoors?

All Beach Boys songs and I guess Jan and Dean

You want your band's tracks to be played on Voix de Garage garage glitter punk radio show? Just contact me

In a couple of days, the very last Voix de Garage episode of the season 2013-2014... Don't miss it!

Radio What Wave Playlist July 3/2014. All Canadian Show to celebrate Canada Day

1. The Smugglers....Canadian Amabassadors..from the In The Hall Of Fame CD on Popllama Records. 1993 CD from these Vancouver garage/pop/rock'n'rollers that for some reason, never drew a lot of people here in sleepy London Ontario. Lead singer Grant Lawrence, now a DJ on CBC Radio was in town to promote his latest book this past winter and the trend continued. Neither Grant nor i understand sleepy London Ontario Canada.

2. The Living Deadbeats... Hey Girl...from the CD of the same name. Vancouver combo that features former Londoner Peter Gripp on the bass.

3. DOA...Big Guys Like DOA....live recording from 11/18/1995 from Halifax. Recorded this from CBC Radio just about 19 years ago. DOA are one of the world's longest running punk rock combos.

4. No Means No....Oh Canaduh!...from a 7" on Allied Records and a Subhumans cover.

5. The Evaporators....It's My Pride....from their 1998 LP, United Empire Loyalists. Nardwuar the Human Serviette is a noted supporter of all things Canadian and a good guy!

6. The Chickens.....White Squirrel Town...from their Prepare To Plug In CD. White Squirrel Town is in reference to Exeter Ontario, where some of these lads grew up and formed this amazing combo called UIC!! And we're still waiting for that final UIC LP to come out....

7. Flying Squad....Brian Mulroney....local biker rock combo and their little tune about one of our former Prime Ministers. We're still waiting for an ode to our present, Stephen Harper.....which reminds me of something i read in Gods Of The Hammer, The Teenage Head story the other day. Steve Mahon (Teenage Head) was introducing himself to Steven Leckie (Viletones singer) and Steve said 'I spell my name S T E P H E N' to which Leckie replied, 'I spell it F U C K O F F'....my brain works in weird ways.

8. Jim Ashby....Speed City....7" on Speed City Records and a tale of our sleepy little town.

9. Crowbar....Oh What A Feeling....from the Bad Manors LP from the early 70's. First of several tunes from Hamilton based combos.

10. Junkhouse....Joy Ride...from the Fuzz CD from 1997 and features Tom Wilson on guitar and vocals and Ray Farrugia on drums, both of whom played with Canadian icon Gordon Lightfoot the other day.

11. Blackie and The Rodeo Kings....Lean On Your Peers...from the Kings Of Love CD and this song refers to Frankie Venom and his early days in Teenage Head.

12. Chris Houston....Einsteins Brain's In Hamilton....from a recent 7" and may explain a little bit about Hamilton Ontario and it's amazing music scene.

13. Forgotten Rebels...I Think Of Her...from their self titled CD on OPM records and recorded at the Cedar Lounge in 1980.

14. Simply Saucer....Low Profile....from their brand new 12" recorded in Detroit with Jim Diamond.

15. Stompin' Tom Connors...Bud The Spud....from the LP of the same name. A Canadian show would not be complete without The Stomper!!

16. Murray McLauchan....Linda...from the Only The Silence Remains, a double live LP from 1975. This guy was the darling of the Canadian AM radio set due to his Farmer's Song which was played continually and actually brought some notice to our farmers. But Linda, was on an entirely different subject. The Linda this song refers to is Linda Lovelace, the 'star' of the porno movie Deep Throat, one of the first porno movies to attract mainstream attention. Young Murray and his lightbulb were banned from many radio stations once they found out what this song was about.

17. Art Bergmann....Buried Alive...from the What Fresh Hell Is This? CD from 1995. Art is sometimes referred to as Canada's Lou Reed, possibly due to his lyrical matter, but more likely due to his drug preferences.

18. Art Bergmann....My Empty House...recorded live at the Town Pump in Vancouver, 2/18/1995. This is Art's hometown and as you can hear, he's got the crowd on his side for this one.

19. Jerry Jerry and the Sons Of Rhythm Orchestra....Living On Top....from the Road Gore LP from 1985 on OG Records. Edmonton combo who moved to Montreal, then later back to Edmonton as the booze is better there.

20. Jerry Jerry and the Sons Of Rhythm Orchestra....The Drift....from the Battle Hymn Of The Apartment LP. This used to be the show closer for JJ and the boys and rightfully so! Just listen to those lyrics, just hang on to that beat....and with JJ's antics on stage this was a Killer!!! When they opened for The Long Ryders many years ago in Hamilton Ontario, they closed with this one and the Long Ryders were so blown away, they broke up a few days later. JJ could have this effect on people.

21. Deja Voodoo...Things...recorded live at Key West Cafe, London Ontario 10/22/1987. Sludgeabilly at it's finest!

22. Dik Van Dykes...Curling...from It Came From Canada Volume 3 on OG Records. Yet another Hamilton combo and that's a wrap!!

Thanx for all the phone-ins (there were lots during this show!), emails, facebook messages and Heys!! Hope you enjoyed this all Canuck show and maybe it opened you up to some Canadian combo you weren't familiar with.

Back again next week.....with The Mogs, Frankenstein 5, The Mood and many more as we pay tribute to our good pal, constant listener, frequent phone in guy and dreamer Rob Munro.......

 And here's a link to the podcast:

http://chrwradio.ca/programs/radio-what-wave