Yeah. Jordan & I found out that Shel was living in LA not far from Jordan's place, so we got hold of him & asked him to produce the record. We were both big fans of The Who/Kinks/Creation. Speaking of the Creation, their bass player used to own the Cat N Fiddle, the best English Pub in Hollywood. He owned it until he passed away. The first time I went there (when it was in it's original location in Laurel Canyon) I sat at the bar & realized I was sitting next to Mitch Mitchell. Another time I went there & Ron Wood was sitting behind me. Behind the bar was a really cool framed promo shot of The Creation, from back in the day.

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

I actually didn't know that at the time. LOL I was just a huge Fuzztones fan back in the late 80s/early 90s. It still sounded like a slightly modern album but modest, not OVER produced.

John Carlucci said:

Rod,

Shel Talmy produced The "In Heat" lp.... maybe that's why you like it! and @ mikel, I meant to reply to your post about Johnny Rotten but it ended up as a general reply, so if you have not seen it, it's below...click on the link, it's pretty funny.



Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

I personally wish that records still sounded like 1963 Beatles albums or Shel Talmy productions from 1965. Or even Mickie Most recordings. Produced for its day, but you can still hear static from the vocal mic.

Rod, Shel Talmy produced The "In Heat" lp.... maybe that's why you like it! and @ mikel, I meant to reply to your post about Johnny Rotten but it ended up as a general reply, so if you have not seen it, it's below...click on the link, it's pretty funny.

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

I personally wish that records still sounded like 1963 Beatles albums or Shel Talmy productions from 1965. Or even Mickie Most recordings. Produced for its day, but you can still hear static from the vocal mic.

I personally wish that records still sounded like 1963 Beatles albums or Shel Talmy productions from 1965. Or even Mickie Most recordings. Produced for its day, but you can still hear static from the vocal mic.

Actually, Springsteen can still easily sell out arenas, so Little Steven is still reaping the benefits from that.

Dana V. Hatch said:

Dirty Ugly Records said:

I completely disagree with what you have to say on this John.

1st, if it's "cool and retro" to do lo-fi recordings, it's news to me. Maybe it is, I'm pretty out of the loop on what's cool..except for what I think is cool.

This isn't some new development, people have always been doing this since home recording was an option. If it's bigger now, it's just a healthy reaction towards everything being super slick and shitty. Many people want and need a rawness in their music.

I've been playing lo-fi music and helping other people record it since the mid 90s, and have never met one person who was doing it to be hip or whatever. They were either doing it because they had no money, or they plain liked the sound.

You're talking about bands being popular on the club circuit, but can't get their music played on the radio. Frankly there are a LOT of people out there who don't give a shit about being popular or getting played on the radio. Getting big isn't on their agenda. They are doing what is fun for them, and making the sound they want to make.

You're talking about future income, and generating royalties. This is so meaningless to me. I think most people playing lo-fi music don't care about this crap. Again, they do it because they like it.

Really it's just embarrassing to mention you're getting royalties from being on Jay Leno and commercials, or that you were on a major. To a lot of people into raw and lo-fi music, this leaves us scratching our heads...I don't think you get that these are BAD things to most of us into lo-fi..really lame things we would never want to do. Making money is the last thing most of us care about.

Your advice at the end is kind of insulting. "Don't sell yourself short. If a record is un- listenable why even bother?"
Nobody is doing that. Franklly you're just being a snob, and saying this stuff is un-listenable to YOU.

Also how the hell do you know what will stand the test of time?? And why should people care if it does? Some do, some don't. And you can't predict what people will look back on in 20, 50 or 100 years as being good.

If you don't like it, just don't listen to it. Seriously, you're kind of coming off as a cranky old guy who doesn't like what "the kids" are doing today because it isn't what you were into doing.

Why on earth would anybody care about being on Little Steven's show? There are tons of radio shows that play lo-fi music, just not mainstream ones. Frankly, Little Steven and his DJs can go fuck themselves for all I care. There are plenty of podcasts available right on this site that put on way better shows than him. Again, you look at this from the perspective of every band wanting to get big and make money.

What I hear over and over from your two posts, is that it seems you think there is one right way to do things, YOUR way. And you assume that everybody wants what you wanted. You kind of assume everybody wants a big record deal, to make money, to do this and that. Well almost everything you named is completely meaningless to us.

Anyway you have the right to your opinions, but I just think you're dead wrong on this and looking at it in a really weird way.



I don't tell people they suck for recording in a studio, and I don't really appreciate people telling me I suck for being involved in home recording.

i completely agree with your post especially what you say about Little Steven. Mr. Arena Rock douchebag suddenly fancies himself an expert on garage rock. "No bass, no band" he insists, invalidating the Seeds, the Cramps, Hound Dog Taylor & the Houserockers and countless other worthy bands. Someone asked him "What about the Gories?" and HE'D NEVER HEARD OF THEM. Garage rock expert, my dick. What really frosts my ass is in the 70's all the money gigs went to bands playing Springsteen and Zep type crap while rockabilly, garage, and punk bands played in toilets for spare change. But soon as the big money stopped rolling in for fucks like Little Skeevie and Bob Plant they acted like they were into real rock & roll all along.

That's also a good way to sum it all up.

The Foreign Characters said:

I like plenty of lo-fi bands and to me both those albums are unlistenable... I agree unlistenable is in the ear of the beholder :)

I like plenty of lo-fi bands and to me both those albums are unlistenable... I agree unlistenable is in the ear of the beholder :)

BTW, I share both impulses on this subject. Sometimes I do like stuff that's really raw, and other times I like it more produced. Usually, when it's rootsy, I like it raw, and when it's poppy, I like it produced. However, this is not an ironclad rule for me. I've heard rootsy bands that put out well produced albums, and poppy bands that sound a little bit more raw than usual. Then again, it all boils down to one question for me..does it sound good? If it does, then that's all that matters.

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

Kurt Cobain said the same thing about Nirvana's major label debut (or at least unlistenable to people use to the sound of Aerosmith and Guns N Roses albums).

Well it sure is a good thing that Johnny never sold out!! (see link) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mSE-Iy_tFY

Yeah, definetly.

kopper said:

I personally thought there was too much wimpy '80s college rock on it and not enough real garage/psych revival stuff.

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

I felt Rhino could have done two or three box sets of "Children". Trying to put 25 years onto 4 discs meant a lot of bands were going to miss out. They should have done the 80s for one box and the 90s for another. This year would have been perfect for the last 10. Of course, there are a few Bomp/Voxx comps that kind of fill in the gaps.

I personally thought there was too much wimpy '80s college rock on it and not enough real garage/psych revival stuff.

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

I felt Rhino could have done two or three box sets of "Children". Trying to put 25 years onto 4 discs meant a lot of bands were going to miss out. They should have done the 80s for one box and the 90s for another. This year would have been perfect for the last 10. Of course, there are a few Bomp/Voxx comps that kind of fill in the gaps.

"Farmer John, I'm in love with your daughter!"

I was really lucky that Western WA had a decent history of garage punk when I was looking for a band so people knew.

RayDanger said:

Try starting a garage rock band in a heavy metal/punk rock town. Place an add that says "Drummer wanted for Garage Rock Band" and see all the funny looks you get.

Try starting a garage rock band in a heavy metal/punk rock town. Place an add that says "Drummer wanted for Garage Rock Band" and see all the funny looks you get.

Yeah, that's the sucky behavior that I remember you referring to. Didn't you also come up with the Braindroppings title as well? My guitar player wrote one song (I changed the melody and chords of the middle but I wouldn't take credit for that) and if we had gotten that released, he would have got full credit. That's what I believe in. Cramps cover bands....what's the point of that?! Girl Trouble had some Cramps covers in their early sets but they also had X and Gun Club songs as well as stuff like I Got My Mojo Working. I wasn't there at the time but it was their set list for their 25th anniversary. Someone just said that you're probably going to see the wrong bands but the truth is...these retro bands who rely on covers somehow get opening spots for bands like the Love Me Nots and Woolly Bandits. And I don't like putting them down if they are just starting out (I had to rely on covers when I finally got to open for the Woggles. It was a new group) but yeah, you want to start writng tunes that you can sneak into the set.

John Carlucci said:

Hey Rod,

Good points. I totally understand. It's easier to learn covers & when played in public a cover pulls in the audience because it's familiar to them. So I know what you are talking about. That started to happen during the end of my involvement with Truly Lover Trio. I started to feel like I was in a Roy Orbison tribute band as Marcel catered to the reception he would get when doing those songs live.

Now the cover thing has gone beyond a band like the Fuzztones doing obscure Garage songs. Now we have Johnny Cash Tribute Bands, Ramones Tribute Bands, and this week I started seeing ads for Cramps cover bands.

I'm glad someone likes the In Heat lp! I myself have a love/hate relationship with that record (as I do with my entire involvement in the Fuzztones). I'm proud of what we accomplished. I think the playing was good. I just know we could have done a helluva a lot better. That's the part that kills me. It was a good opportunity, but it became a wasted opportunity as far as I'm concerned.

I try to write my songs from my own personal experience in life. It's a form of story telling. I start with the lyrics and then the music, in most cases I will collaborate with my band mates on the music. That is how I wrote No Substitute & Something on my Mind for the Speedies.(Both of which were based on true stories & ended up on Speedies singles).

I took a similar approach when I submitted "Blood From A Stone " to the Fuzztones. However that song was rejected by Rudi when I was in the band, only to turn up on the Flashbacks LP after I left the band, with most of the words changed. It turned up again last year on the Horny As Hell LP . The addition of the horns only made the song even further from what I have been hearing in my head all these years. So I'm going to take the song back to the original lyrics and redo it as it was originally intended to sound, which will put it closer in spirit to the two previously mentioned Speedies songs. (I write my best words when heartbroken. lol!)





Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

Hey Rod, Good points. I totally understand. It's easier to learn covers & when played in public a cover pulls in the audience because it's familiar to them. So I know what you are talking about. That started to happen during the end of my involvement with Truly Lover Trio. I started to feel like I was in a Roy Orbison tribute band as Marcel catered to the reception he would get when doing those songs live. Now the cover thing has gone beyond a band like the Fuzztones doing obscure Garage songs. Now we have Johnny Cash Tribute Bands, Ramones Tribute Bands, and this week I started seeing ads for Cramps cover bands. I'm glad someone likes the In Heat lp! I myself have a love/hate relationship with that record (as I do with my entire involvement in the Fuzztones). I'm proud of what we accomplished. I think the playing was good. I just know we could have done a helluva a lot better. That's the part that kills me. It was a good opportunity, but it became a wasted opportunity as far as I'm concerned. I try to write my songs from my own personal experience in life. It's a form of story telling. I start with the lyrics and then the music, in most cases I will collaborate with my band mates on the music. That is how I wrote No Substitute & Something on my Mind for the Speedies.(Both of which were based on true stories & ended up on Speedies singles). I took a similar approach when I submitted "Blood From A Stone " to the Fuzztones. However that song was rejected by Rudi when I was in the band, only to turn up on the Flashbacks LP after I left the band, with most of the words changed. It turned up again last year on the Horny As Hell LP . The addition of the horns only made the song even further from what I have been hearing in my head all these years. So I'm going to take the song back to the original lyrics and redo it as it was originally intended to sound, which will put it closer in spirit to the two previously mentioned Speedies songs. (I write my best words when heartbroken. lol!)

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

That's the one.

MikeL said:

Thanks for the suggestion, but I already have a CD compilation of the Mummies that's also titled "Death by Unga Bunga."



Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

You might want to look for Death by Unga Bunga on Estrus. It's a comp of 7 inches and Various artists appearences plus a few songs from albums. I only recommend Never Been Caught on Telstar IF you like the Estrus CD.

MikeL said:

BTW, I like the Mummies too. I got into them thanks to "Who Know Who" when I heard "You Must Fight to Live on the Planet of the Apes" on his Sirius/XM channel.



Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

This is a topic I'm always torn on. When I started my band the Strychnines in the late 80s, we did almost all originals with the occasional cover. I wrote at least 3 or 4 albums worth of material but I had trouble getting passed my first 20 or so songs because I didn't want to let them go until I got a release out of them (which never happened) and it didn't matter to the rest of the group cuz they never cared to learn new songs anyway. So we played the same 15-20 songs for 8 years until we got bored of them. I didn't want to waste my time playing the next set of songs I wrote seeing the same thing happen (no record) so I just started dipping into Nuggets and Pebbles and having the band play those. And we learned a lot of Sonics songs. It was just more fun and less discouraging. We never toured anyway so it really didn't matter.

One thing I find discouraging though, John, is that you played on one of the few original Fuzztones albums and you ripped on those because they lacked originality. I think In Heat was a great record considering that the previous version of the band mostly did covers and saved their originals for 7 inches. I wrote songs pretty much the same way. I agree with you that he should have given his band more credit instead of claiming all ideas as his own but for being in that same songwriting school as Lux and Ivy, Billy Childish, and Paula Pierce, I think you guys did a really great job.

But you're right, those bands who claim they love the Mummies really should have taken a harder look at that band and saw what really made them special instead of relying on image and gimmicks.

Sounds like you're going to see the wrong bands!

Thanks for the suggestion, but I already have a CD compilation of the Mummies that's also titled "Death by Unga Bunga."

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

You might want to look for Death by Unga Bunga on Estrus. It's a comp of 7 inches and Various artists appearences plus a few songs from albums. I only recommend Never Been Caught on Telstar IF you like the Estrus CD.

MikeL said:

BTW, I like the Mummies too. I got into them thanks to "Who Know Who" when I heard "You Must Fight to Live on the Planet of the Apes" on his Sirius/XM channel.



Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

This is a topic I'm always torn on. When I started my band the Strychnines in the late 80s, we did almost all originals with the occasional cover. I wrote at least 3 or 4 albums worth of material but I had trouble getting passed my first 20 or so songs because I didn't want to let them go until I got a release out of them (which never happened) and it didn't matter to the rest of the group cuz they never cared to learn new songs anyway. So we played the same 15-20 songs for 8 years until we got bored of them. I didn't want to waste my time playing the next set of songs I wrote seeing the same thing happen (no record) so I just started dipping into Nuggets and Pebbles and having the band play those. And we learned a lot of Sonics songs. It was just more fun and less discouraging. We never toured anyway so it really didn't matter.

One thing I find discouraging though, John, is that you played on one of the few original Fuzztones albums and you ripped on those because they lacked originality. I think In Heat was a great record considering that the previous version of the band mostly did covers and saved their originals for 7 inches. I wrote songs pretty much the same way. I agree with you that he should have given his band more credit instead of claiming all ideas as his own but for being in that same songwriting school as Lux and Ivy, Billy Childish, and Paula Pierce, I think you guys did a really great job.

But you're right, those bands who claim they love the Mummies really should have taken a harder look at that band and saw what really made them special instead of relying on image and gimmicks.

You might want to look for Death by Unga Bunga on Estrus. It's a comp of 7 inches and Various artists appearences plus a few songs from albums. I only recommend Never Been Caught on Telstar IF you like the Estrus CD.

MikeL said:

BTW, I like the Mummies too. I got into them thanks to "Who Know Who" when I heard "You Must Fight to Live on the Planet of the Apes" on his Sirius/XM channel.



Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

This is a topic I'm always torn on. When I started my band the Strychnines in the late 80s, we did almost all originals with the occasional cover. I wrote at least 3 or 4 albums worth of material but I had trouble getting passed my first 20 or so songs because I didn't want to let them go until I got a release out of them (which never happened) and it didn't matter to the rest of the group cuz they never cared to learn new songs anyway. So we played the same 15-20 songs for 8 years until we got bored of them. I didn't want to waste my time playing the next set of songs I wrote seeing the same thing happen (no record) so I just started dipping into Nuggets and Pebbles and having the band play those. And we learned a lot of Sonics songs. It was just more fun and less discouraging. We never toured anyway so it really didn't matter.

One thing I find discouraging though, John, is that you played on one of the few original Fuzztones albums and you ripped on those because they lacked originality. I think In Heat was a great record considering that the previous version of the band mostly did covers and saved their originals for 7 inches. I wrote songs pretty much the same way. I agree with you that he should have given his band more credit instead of claiming all ideas as his own but for being in that same songwriting school as Lux and Ivy, Billy Childish, and Paula Pierce, I think you guys did a really great job.

But you're right, those bands who claim they love the Mummies really should have taken a harder look at that band and saw what really made them special instead of relying on image and gimmicks.

BTW, I like the Mummies too. I got into them thanks to "Who Know Who" when I heard "You Must Fight to Live on the Planet of the Apes" on his Sirius/XM channel.



Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

This is a topic I'm always torn on. When I started my band the Strychnines in the late 80s, we did almost all originals with the occasional cover. I wrote at least 3 or 4 albums worth of material but I had trouble getting passed my first 20 or so songs because I didn't want to let them go until I got a release out of them (which never happened) and it didn't matter to the rest of the group cuz they never cared to learn new songs anyway. So we played the same 15-20 songs for 8 years until we got bored of them. I didn't want to waste my time playing the next set of songs I wrote seeing the same thing happen (no record) so I just started dipping into Nuggets and Pebbles and having the band play those. And we learned a lot of Sonics songs. It was just more fun and less discouraging. We never toured anyway so it really didn't matter.

One thing I find discouraging though, John, is that you played on one of the few original Fuzztones albums and you ripped on those because they lacked originality. I think In Heat was a great record considering that the previous version of the band mostly did covers and saved their originals for 7 inches. I wrote songs pretty much the same way. I agree with you that he should have given his band more credit instead of claiming all ideas as his own but for being in that same songwriting school as Lux and Ivy, Billy Childish, and Paula Pierce, I think you guys did a really great job.

But you're right, those bands who claim they love the Mummies really should have taken a harder look at that band and saw what really made them special instead of relying on image and gimmicks.

This is a topic I'm always torn on. When I started my band the Strychnines in the late 80s, we did almost all originals with the occasional cover. I wrote at least 3 or 4 albums worth of material but I had trouble getting passed my first 20 or so songs because I didn't want to let them go until I got a release out of them (which never happened) and it didn't matter to the rest of the group cuz they never cared to learn new songs anyway. So we played the same 15-20 songs for 8 years until we got bored of them. I didn't want to waste my time playing the next set of songs I wrote seeing the same thing happen (no record) so I just started dipping into Nuggets and Pebbles and having the band play those. And we learned a lot of Sonics songs. It was just more fun and less discouraging. We never toured anyway so it really didn't matter.

One thing I find discouraging though, John, is that you played on one of the few original Fuzztones albums and you ripped on those because they lacked originality. I think In Heat was a great record considering that the previous version of the band mostly did covers and saved their originals for 7 inches. I wrote songs pretty much the same way. I agree with you that he should have given his band more credit instead of claiming all ideas as his own but for being in that same songwriting school as Lux and Ivy, Billy Childish, and Paula Pierce, I think you guys did a really great job.

But you're right, those bands who claim they love the Mummies really should have taken a harder look at that band and saw what really made them special instead of relying on image and gimmicks.

LOL, that reminds me of what so many people thought of KISS, i.e. all image but no substance.

John Carlucci said:

I agree with him regarding the craft of songwriting. It's not easy. In this day and age, everyone wants instant gratification. It takes time to develop talent. In the case of the Beatles & Stones they learned from the covers they did & they grew into something unique. That's what I do not see enough of these days. Don't get me wrong, I think it's fine to "grow up in public" in other words, just getting out there & doing & learn as you go. However I don't see a lot of growing going on these days. I see image & gimmicks. There are plenty of bands with Monster head masks out there & I've seen most of them play on multiple occassions & can't remember one of their songs!

The first two things I thought of: The screams that start every track of Funhouse and (this will blow some cred) the scream at the end of the guitar solo before the last chorus of "Won't get Fooled Again"). All these years later, despite all the overplay and the whole CSI thing, it still gets me.

Yeah, it's not like it's impossible to find reissues or legit comps that have obscure songs on them. Check out the Norton Records catalog, Bear Family, Crypt, Sundazed, Bomp/AIP, Rhino, etc. Hell, just do a google search for them and you're bound to find something.

stoneageromeo said:

Downloading's alright but, concerning the Purple Toads, they put out two albums that are absolutely fantastic so I suggest you buy them instead ...