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  • Topic: Lester Bangs "The White Noise Supremists"

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    • August 21, 2013 2:50 PM CDT
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      This articles deserve a double take. 

       

      I DO live in a 70%-plus white city, but still it is everywhere:  The underlying racist sentiment that's ever so cool and subversive behind the cheap lip service of the ever-bullshiting "that's not PC."  Because everyone knows what they're supposed to do and say, right..... So, this is nothing new and saying it means absolutely NOTHING!  It was once prevalent in the 70s/80s New Wave & Punk scene, now it's being transplanted into the many other rising new subcultures. . . whatever they'll be called in the future.

       

      Ex.  I go to a hip whitewashed coffee shop around here and hear them playing rap music loudly, yet I'll hear one of the tres cool Free People ala UrbanOutfitter-style wearing employees describe a neighborhood street where there are at least 2+ black or latino families described as "sketch" and it's inhabitants as "creepy" without ever bothering to get to know them, make eye contact, say hello, or otherwise be human to them in any way.  Low income neighborhoods are naturally "bad" and homeless people, etc, are "fucked UP!", right?  Where's the insight, respect, and the humanity gone?  It's the damn 70s/80s all over... or at least it's trying.  Are we really gaining any headway?  Maybe someone has put this up in the past, but since the site is new and BTW I live in U.S., but Canada & Europe is no exception either.....

       

      Lester Bangs' "The White Noise Supremist":

       

      http://www.mariabuszek.com/kcai/PoMoSeminar/Readings/BangsWhite.pdf

    • August 21, 2013 4:50 PM CDT
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      Great read. I'm amazed but not shocked that the "scene" hasnt changed much at all when it comes to race and racism. Everything Bangs wrote about still happens, far too often than it ever should in a culture that is said to embrace differences. 

    • August 22, 2013 9:24 AM CDT
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      I wish people still wrote like this. I'm probably going to re-read this a few more times over the next month just to properly digest it.

       

      One of my favorite parts:

       

      "If there's nothing more poisonous than bigotry, there's nothing more pathetic than 

      liberal guilt.....

      I put a dollop more pain in the world, and that was that."

       

      It's worth checking out the Wikipedia entries on "Hipster Racism" and "Hipster Sexism."

       

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_racism
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_sexism

       

       

    • August 22, 2013 12:07 PM CDT
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      Jane Dear said:

      I wish people still wrote like this. I'm probably going to re-read this a few more times over the next month just to properly digest it.

      I feel like the more you read good literature, the better you write. We're capable of it with effort. .. this thought occurred to me as a result of trying to learn to yodel (Ha!)

       

      Hipster sexism/racism by definition! See, I purposely tried not to use the word "hipster."

       

      I like this term "self-aware sexism", like the scene in Borat where he's talking to the panel of feminists. Real funny there, asshole.  So basically, you're aware your sexism or racism, but you'll joke about because you're not actually sorry about it.  In fact, you want to flaunt it because you think it's cute.  And speaking of S. Cohen (the new Lenny Bruce here), being a member of a particular minority group doesn't automatically make you exempt from racism and/or sexism by any means.  It just means you're a complete sociopath who doesn't mind exploiting any and everyone.  Be proud you've decided to turn you're back on your gender/lifestyle/race/ethnicity, forget anyone's former suffering and turn it on everyone else so you too can be loved and accepted.  I would call that selfish and vindictive. What upstanding qualities!

       

      Liberal guilt:  I don't want to put all those deemed as "hipsters" into that one category.  I know plenty of (I guess) hipster-looking people who come from extreme poverty and really are DIY and can't afford to shave (oops), but for those attempting to be controversial and making a joke out of an ultimately racist or sexist stance, it doesn't change the reality of it.  If you listen to a lot of the 70s comedians, that was a form a humor that I think was like a way of letting out the past years of repression (for those experiencing it particularly), but we should be moving on at this point. 

    • August 22, 2013 12:28 PM CDT
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      Lutz Vipinderwoman said:

      I feel like the more you read good literature, the better you write. We're capable of it with effort. .. this thought occurred to me as a result of trying to learn to yodel (Ha!)

       

      Today's journalism is more shortform, is based on lists, borrowed content, reposting, etc. There's not the same quality of meaningful editorial calendars and readers consuming their literature over the course of a monthly/bi-monthly edition or issue. There are still plenty of quality journalists and storytellers, but we're mass consuming snippets of writing and sometimes it's just really refreshing to read something like this that we now equate to an essay.

       

      Hipster sexism/racism by definition! See, I purposely tried not to use the word "hipster."

       

      I try to avoid the term "hipster" because it tends to conjure a specific demographic of youngish mostly white people with a certain costume on.

       

      Liberal guilt:  I don't want to put all those deemed as "hipsters" into that one category.  I know plenty of (I guess) hipster-looking people who come from extreme poverty and really are DIY and can't afford to shave (oops), but for those attempting to be controversial and making a joke out of an ultimately racist or sexist stance, it doesn't change the reality of it.  If you listen to a lot of the 70s comedians, that was a form a humor that I think was like a way of letting out the past years of repression (for those experiencing it particularly), but we should be moving on at this point. 

       

      In that part, Bangs was referring to being apologetic to people he had offended. It's some food for thought.

       

      Another interesting read about subtle racism for people who don't think they're racist. Even if it's from the psychobabble of PsychologyToday. 

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/microaggressions-in-everyday-life/201010/racial-microaggressions-in-everyday-life

       

    • August 22, 2013 1:22 PM CDT
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      Basically modern journalism is catering to what's known as the dumbing down of the American masses (and everyone else for that matter).  I don't know how many times a day I hear these words "Awesome" or "nice!" or "sweet".  I'm longwinded so I TRY to keep it short and have even resorted to "nice" or "sweet" online only, where I never would in my day to day life, but REALLY people there are other adjectives at our disposal for expressing gratitude and appreciation.

       

      So here too is a good example that just reeks of "hipster sexist/racist microaggression" in this AWFUL online periodical:  http://www.vice.com/en_us

       

      AND try to only go on it once because I don't want to support someone's coke habit when they can easily get the money from their parents.

      In that part, Bangs was referring to being apologetic to people he had offended. It's some food for thought.

      There, I'm not apologizing!  You can read people's comments on vice.com and see that people also agree, as one commenter put it  "I hate vice because it represents a type of mindset that I can't stand: arrogant, ellitist junky fuck-ups who are just as superficial and uninteresting as the people they spend their time criticizing. Hooo the warm safeness of irony."

       

      So true, not to mention completely generic reporting I can find on Yahoo News without the "arrogant elitist" journalist tone that is basically racist, sexist AND homophobic paired with just some bad writing indicative of someone(s) who don't obviously spend a whole lot of time reading introspectively.

      This post was edited by Lutz Vipinderwoman at August 22, 2013 1:56 PM CDT
    • August 22, 2013 2:36 PM CDT
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      Oh man. Vice. Don't even get me started! That soapbox has permanent imprints of my feet!

    • September 4, 2013 10:33 PM CDT
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      I've had this article bookmarked for days now and finally got around to reading it. It's really good, thanks for sharing. To be honest it is not something I would have expected to read by Lester Bangs. Not that I ever suspected him of being a racist, but he (admittedly) has been pretty free about using the word nigger and other racist words.

       

      I find most of his writings to be good, so I was not surprised to enjoy this article. What did surprise me is the courage it took to write the article, which was exposing many of his pals for their questionable banter.

       

      As far as good journalism—it still exists, perhaps more and better than ever with all the technological advances, it's just not a part of mainstream culture. As mentioned by Lutz, the mainstream news networks are more about dumbing people down so they don't get too concerned with important issues. I find that good journalism is abundant, but since it is not under the thumb of special interest, most do not have the funds to advertise, so you just have to know where to look for it.

    • September 7, 2013 3:53 AM CDT
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      Lester Bangs is a 'COCK' who if it sold headline inches would blame the jews for the sinking of the Titanic or whatever other ironic untruth ya got. He would then sit back and let the 'kids' discuss and create the monster. If questioned... A choice ironic turn of phrase or two would let him of the hook. BOOM! the beat generation continues. In this day of soundbite politics and 'constructive' hatred and mistrust. Bangs would probably be considered for President or Emperor of Jupiter or any other puppet statesmanlike position! These fucker journalists from a dinosaur age should be considered for what they really are. No one and everyone. 'Vive le Conspiracy Theory!!!' Free speech died with Emily Pankhurst.

    • September 10, 2013 2:57 PM CDT
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      Matt said:

      As far as good journalism—it still exists, perhaps more and better than ever with all the technological advances, it's just not a part of mainstream culture. As mentioned by Lutz, the mainstream news networks are more about dumbing people down so they don't get too concerned with important issues. I find that good journalism is abundant, but since it is not under the thumb of special interest, most do not have the funds to advertise, so you just have to know where to look for it.

       

      I agree it's abundant, because of the Internet we can pretty much do/say almost anything, but it's true if you want good, honest, ACTUAL contraversial i.e., free speech journalism, then you do have to look for it.  The interesting thing is no one seems to be getting paid much these days like they used to regardless of WHO they work for.  Ex. status quo/bologna-online Huff Post uses journalism internship student writers who don't get paid, which I think is absolutely foul considering HP's net worth.... or the "robot" writing with minimal human editing.  But it's the people who really care and do it for free (unfortunately) that are the best journalists these days.  The former "Letter to the Editor" is basically the comment section on every site for all to see.  When there was the big threat of Internet censorship (was it a year ago?), EVERYONE came from off the rafters and out of their dust folds to demonstrate about it....that got everyone's attention.  Why? The possible suppression of free speech. 

    • October 13, 2013 4:37 PM CDT
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      I KIND OF DOUBT THAT LESTER BANGS WOULD HAVE BLAMED HIS OWN PEOPLE FOR THE VARIOUS UNTRUTHS THAT HAVE BEEN HURLED AT THEM IN RECENT YEARS, I DON'T BELIEVE HE WAS AN OVERTLY POLITICAL PERSON , BUT , IF HIS BULLSHIT DETECTOR WENT OFF, HE'D GENERALLY CALL WHOEVER WAS SPREADING THE LIES ON THEIR NONSENSE.....EVEN IF THAT PERSON HAPPENED TO BE HIM !

       

      PEOPLE LIKE BANGS , AND PETER LAUGHNER , HELD NOTHING BACK IN THEIR JOURNALISM , EVEN IF IT HAD LITTLE OR NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC AT HAND....UMMMM , ROCK'N'ROLL , USUALLY. BUT IF THEY'D CONSIGNED THEMSELVES TO THE FACT THAT ROCK IS THE DRUG , WE MIGHT STILL BE READING THEIR NEW WORKS OR LISTENING TO THEIR NEW MUSIC , TODAY. OK , WERE HE STILL ALIVE , BANGS PROBABLY WOULD HAVE MAINTAINED HIS MORATORIUM ON RECORDING AND PERFORMING MUSIC..... HIS WORK WITH BIRDLAND AND THE DELINQUENTS NEVER REALLY TOOK OFF. DOES'NT MEAN IT WAS BAD.

       

      BANGS SEEMED UNABLE TO FULLY GRASP WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE A WOMAN IN NYC AT THAT TIME. OK , WE MEN GENERALLY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT WOMEN GO THROUGH , BUT , IF WE'RE SMART , AND IF WE CARE , WE'LL LISTEN. WE CAN BE EMPATHETIC WITHOUT BEING FALSE OR PATRONIZING.

       

      DOES ROCK STILL SMACK OF RACISM AND SEXISM? SURE. ARE THERE A HELL OF A LOT MORE FEMALES AND NONWHITES (and BOTH.)DIRECTLY INVOLVED THAT THERE WERE AROUND THE TIME OF BANGS' DEATH  ? OF COURSE THERE ARE.  IN THE 80'S , WHEN I STARTED GOING TO CLUBS , THERE WERE VIRTUALLY NO BLACKS INVOLVED ON THE DALLAS SCENE. GITIIM CHACKAMOI , FROM LITHIUM XMAS AND THE HOWLING DERVISHES (WITH MY BROTHER , TOM .)IS THE ONLY ONE WHO COMES TO MIND. THAT IS , OF COURSE , DISCOUNTING REGGAE AND BLUES BANDS. IN A REAL CITY , LIKE NEW YORK OR MAYBE LA , YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN MORE....WOMEN , OF COURSE (AND GITIIM IS A WOMAN.) WERE USUALLY REGULATED TO THE ROLE OF LEAD SINGER (WHICH IS GREAT , BUT , YOU SELDOM SAW FEMALE MUSICIANS , UNLESS IT WAS THE ODD ALL - FEMALE BAND , USUALLY MORE POP - ORIENTED.). THAT'S CHANGED DRASTICALLY SINCE THE EARLY 80'S.

       

      I THINK LESTER BANDS WAS PARTICULARLY CONFUSED AS TO WHY HIS WHITE ASSOCIATES SHOWED SO LITTLE INTEREST IN BLACK CULTURE AT THE TIME. AND , PROBALY , LATIN CULTURE , TOO. RAP AND HIP HOP WERE HAPPENING , BUT , THEY WERE STILL VERY NEW.  YOU COULD WALK OUTSIDE , OR GO TO A RECORD OR OTHERWISE "HIPSTER" STORE WITHOUT HAVING IT PUMMEL YOU IN THE FACE. EVEN WHEN I WENT TO NEW YORK IN 1984 , FOR THE FIRST TIME , THEY WHOLE GRAFITTI/BREAKDANCING SCENE HAD EXPLODED , WIDE OPEN , BUT , YOU COULD WALK FOR BLOCKS , MAYBE EVEN MILES , AND NOT HAVE TO HEAR RAP MUSIC , UNLIKE NOW , SOME 30 YEARS LATER , IN CHICAGO , AND PROBABLY ALMOST ANYWHERE YOU CARE TO MENTION. I DON'T MAKE ANYONE LISTEN TO MUSIC THAT I LIKE , BUT , THEY'RE NOT GIVING OUT AWARDS FOR THAT.

       

      SURE , IT WAS INSENSITIVE, WHAT BANGS' LADY FRIEND SAID , BUT , SHE WAS UNDER DURESS. TRY TO IMAGINE ANYONE TRYING TO PIMP YOU OUT . THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PIMP , OR A WOULD - BE PIMP AND A BUCKET OF SHIT IS THE BUCKET. I RAN INTO THE WELL - KNOWN WHITE PIMP , WHITEFOLKS , ONCE. WHAT WAS I SUPPOSED TO DO , ASK FOR HIS AUTOGRAPH? CALL ME A HATER . I HATE SLAVERY , WHOEVER IS DOLING OUT , AND WHOEVER FALLS PREY TO IT , OR IS BEING HARRASSED ABOUT BEING IT'S NEXT VICTIM.    AND , NO , THTA'S NOT SOMETHING I'VE HAD TO EXPERIENCE , PERSONALLY , JUST AS BANGS NEVER HAD. BUT , I THINK HE WAS ABOUT AS FAR FROM A RACIST AS YOU COULD GET ON THE ROCK SCENE ,AT THAT TIME. DOES'NT MEAN HE HAD ALL THE ANSWERS , OR EVEN ALL TEH QUESTIONS......

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