It's not that black and white though. For me, the idea of selling out comes down to one of two things.
1. Endorsing something you oppose for cash. Now that can be anything from GM Motors to Disney to Chump Change Mini-mart.
2. Changing your sound because you specifically want to make more cash.
John Lydon has stated that the butter ads he did paid for the making of the latest PiL record. Does that make him a sell out?
When Radiohead toured Kid A around its release, they did it in a tent in parks so that they didn't have to play corporate arenas. The only beer on sale inside the grounds was Budweiser. Sell outs? Or taking some corporate cash in order to help them achieve their own artistic goal. They've also since gone back to playing said corporate arenas. Sell outs?
Did the Clash sell out when they made Combat Rock, or did they just happen to write a bunch of more commercially sounding songs as they aged? Strange that they were accused of selling out when earlier clash songs rallied against other punk bands for the same crime. That said, they were signed to CBS. Not exactly underground.
Nicky Wire of the Manic Street Preachers, again responding to claims in their early days that they'd sold out, said that they did so the moment they signed a recording contract as from that precise moment it was no longer simply about the music.
Kings Of Leon stated from the outset that their goal was to become one of the biggest bands on the planet. Not to write a classic album or influence people and help them expand their miands. Nope, to simply become one of the biggest bands on the planet. By that measure, can anything they ever do be construed as selling out?
What was Sonic Youths heinous crime?
As fans, I think we project our ideals onto our idols. We regard them as untouchable and unsulliable. But we do not know them. In the vast majority of cases, we do not know what they aspire to and what they believe in and support down to the minute details, so who are we to say when someone sells out, because really it's an accusation that is leveled at almost every punk/garage band who break out of the underground. Put yourself in their position a while. Imagine being offered the exact same job that you have now, except with quadruple wages and better conditions. You gonna turn it down?
Going back to Schmo's initial post, my initial thoughts of bands that have kept it successfully underground are Fugazi and The Dirtbombs. Don't know if they've been offered anything that they declined so as not to sell out. I know The Dirbombs survive because they tour like motherfuckers and charge about a grand a night to play (at least that's what they charged when I booked them for their last Manchester show anyway). I once read that Mick Collins still lives with his dad because having his own place makes absolutely no financial sense.
I think with art, and more so with music, we equate independence with credibility. If that's the case, my mate Gaz is a more credible film-maker than say Christopher Nolan, who like totally sold out when he made a Batman franchise. What a doosh!
We want artists to struggle and fight to be heard. But if the only people who hear them are their neighbours, what's the point in the struggle?
To clear it all up, just check the Moby Equation.
D. A. Anguiano said:
Well I think we've officially heard from the "Take the money and run" camp. I was planning on typing out a few sentences on why I think its a dogshit idea for independent musicians to schill for a particular movie/corporation/tv show/book, but I'm tired. So this Steve Albini quote about Sonic Youth being idiots will have to do:
“[A] lot of the things they were involved with as part of the mainstream were distasteful to me. And a lot of the things that happened as a direct result of their association with the mainstream music industry gave credibility to some of the nonsense notions that hover around the star-making machinery. A lot of that stuff was offensive to me and I saw it as a sellout and a corruption of a perfectly valid, well-oiled music scene. Sonic Youth chose to abandon it in order to become a modestly successful mainstream band — as opposed to being a quite successful independent band that could have used their resources and influence to extend that end of the culture. They chose to join the mainstream culture and become a foot soldier for that culture’s encroachment into my neck of the woods by acting as scouts. I thought it was crass and I thought it reflected poorly on them. I still consider them friends and their music has its own integrity, but that kind of behavior — I can’t say that I think it’s not embarrassing for them. I think they should be embarrassed about it.”
