Just because the Studer tape machine is analog does not have to mean it has a great sound. I have often recorded on 70's and 80's tape machines which sounded very close to digital (very clean). I would also prefer analog over digital recording but if you are working with the wrong engineer, you will still have problems. You can get a more analog sound with the right engineer, recording digital, than with the wrong engineer recording analog. If you want a specific sound and not that mainstream hi-fi modern sound you have to be very clear about your references and be sure that the engineer is on the same page. Personally I have experienced that working with 24 track tape machines is closer to digital than working with a 4 or 8 track machine from the 60's or early 70's. Of course it completely depends on the sound you want..

Analog in itself should not be a deal-sealer... more important is working with an engineer who knows where you're coming from, and where you want to go!

Personally I wouldn't do business with an engineer who doesn't know how to (or just won't) record live... bleed should not be an issue if everything is set up right... remember that amps can be physically isolated to reduce bleed.  I have a small (as in XS!) studio myself and am constantly amazed by the lack of bleed when playing back live recordings at the end of a session... As a rule, I never let the drummer play solo... even if (for whatever reason) he's just accompanied by a single guitar, bass, or even vocal.

Lizardmen has a lot of good pointers, but even if "playing for the song" is essential, I would still focus on getting a great drum sound, because this is the one "instrument" you will not be able to overdub!.. Make sure your drummer has his drums tuned, and beware of crappy cymbals (in fact, any equipment and/or instrument issues your rehearsal room might "mask", will often be mercilessly exposed in a recording session!.. sometimes it can actually be a good idea to use on-site equipment that the engineer is familiar with... and if the studio has nothing of use, you might just be in the wrong place anyway)!!

I usually have the drummer in for a soundcheck the day before a session, or at least arrive a few hours before the bassplayer, then have the guitar/guitarslingers 'round for amp-tweaking, and finally the singer... having everyone arrive at the same time is definately not a concentration-enhancer.

All the best!

It seems like everyone is on the level here! Hahaha! Maybe I am going to the wrong studio. The thing is he prefers not to record live but will if I can provide references for sound. And there are a sure whole lot of references of great bands that have pulled it off. I'm sure anything by the Gories was recorded live. I believe reading that I Can't Quit You off Zeppelin I was real time as well. Yeah Fuck it! It is my money (I am the main Financeer) and why not have it my way.

The main reason I am looking at this particular studio is that he has a Studer 24 track. 2 " tape. Huge. It's a monster. When I went in to talk to him he showed me his Pro Tools. Everybody has a different opinion but I wasn't impressed. It has to be analog.

I was thinking, to minimize bleed, box in the amp and send the signal into a headphone set to me and the drummer. I should add that we are a two-piece (lost the bassist) and that I intend to add bass after the fact. I am still unsure about vocals. I think I'd like to do 'em in real time as well.

We are planning to record by the New Year. However, we are in the northeast. I don't know if Atlanta would work for us currently. I'd like to check out your suggestion, though, for future reference. Is he analog equipped?


The Lizardmen said:

If you're looking for an authentic 60's sound, play live all together in one room.  You may have to play songs several times until you get a good take.  Yes you will get instruments bleeding into one another, but that's part of the sound.  This is the way it was done back in the day.  Make sure you're well rehearsed and tight but not over rehearsed or you will squeeze all the magic out of the songs.  Make sure you're very familiar with the songs and that they are complete BEFORE you go in to record them.  If you're having trouble getting one song down, move on to another and come back to it later.  Don't get hung up on one song.  Record another song and success with one will lead to success with another.  As a band, the MOST important thing to remember is to "play for the song".  I can't stress this enough!!  Play together with the outcome of the song being the most important goal or focus (how good it sounds), not the guitar solo or drum sound or singer.  KEEP YOUR EGO IN CHECK ON A PERSONAL LEVEL.  BANDS ARE A GROUP EFFORT AND YOU'RE THERE TO HELP ONE ANOTHER BE THE BEST MUSICIAN YOU CAN BE!  Stay positive and remember why you started doing this in the first place with this group of people.  Support and love one another through the process.

Where are you planning to record?  There is a guy in Atlanta who we have worked with and totally "gets it" when it comes to this style of recording.  He has a great small studio not too far outside the city.

Any half decent engineer will be able to record you as live.
Don't dismiss everything that the engineer has to say but remember it's your money that's paying for the session so ultimately what you want goes (even if you're getting the session free, this still applies).
Many engineers like click tracks and recording the instruments seperately as they can take more control over the mix but if it isn't what you want, they should have no problem setting you up properly in the first place. It also takes longer and costs you more to record the instruments seperately!
And if recording live isn't working, you can always change tactics and go with the click track.
We record as live and then re-record the vocals seperately. This way we're using the vocals as a guide but I don't have to worry about them for the main take and can concentrate on my guitar. It also allows for a slightly different vocal take than when we play live.

If you're looking for an authentic 60's sound, play live all together in one room.  You may have to play songs several times until you get a good take.  Yes you will get instruments bleeding into one another, but that's part of the sound.  This is the way it was done back in the day.  Make sure you're well rehearsed and tight but not over rehearsed or you will squeeze all the magic out of the songs.  Make sure you're very familiar with the songs and that they are complete BEFORE you go in to record them.  If you're having trouble getting one song down, move on to another and come back to it later.  Don't get hung up on one song.  Record another song and success with one will lead to success with another.  As a band, the MOST important thing to remember is to "play for the song".  I can't stress this enough!!  Play together with the outcome of the song being the most important goal or focus (how good it sounds), not the guitar solo or drum sound or singer.  KEEP YOUR EGO IN CHECK ON A PERSONAL LEVEL.  BANDS ARE A GROUP EFFORT AND YOU'RE THERE TO HELP ONE ANOTHER BE THE BEST MUSICIAN YOU CAN BE!  Stay positive and remember why you started doing this in the first place with this group of people.  Support and love one another through the process.

Where are you planning to record?  There is a guy in Atlanta who we have worked with and totally "gets it" when it comes to this style of recording.  He has a great small studio not too far outside the city.

Recording live shouldn't be a problem. Possible bleeding of sound to other instruments can be limited with walls or being in different rooms(the drums i.e.). The only challange can be a fair amount of re-takes unless you are really tight or fine with minor mistakes on the recording.

I'd use click-track only if your drummer has timing issues.

make sure you got the songs  well rehearsed, make your sound through the amp, record it in analog if possible, and dont mess around with it later, except maybe for levels.... live is the right way to go for rock n roll....every other way we tried just ddod not work for our ears...

that was only commercial ones like the 5th estate the really lo-fi BFTG-style bands had cheap gear and anyway the gibsons used would be cheap ones like the lp jr or melody maker.

fair coment for the fenders but compard to gibsons they where affordable

By the way, the 60's garage bands, didn't use cheap stuff. If you check out the photos, they had Fenders, Gibsons, Ricks etc rather than Silvertones and Danelectros.

good plan but i dont like todays cheap stuff they so poorly made compared to old ones

just get today's cheap stuff, it will be vintage and expensive in 30 years ;-)

H-ha, thanks for confirming my suspicions, Gents. Maybe my ears aren't going crazy after all. Very interesting to hear some first hand accounts from early punk history as well.

Whoa Cool! You were there.  I've only read about this (as should have everyone).  But everything you say pretty much verifies what I was saying.  and it's great that someone enjoyed the Flamin' Groovies.  I always read that they didn't get as good a reception.  Too quiet in comparison or something. Sounds like it was a great experience. 

Like most bands, the Pistols influences were diverse and varied from member to member.... Johnny even liked Van Der Graaf Generator (though I can't hear it in the songs!) and Matlock was a Small Faces fan, and of course they were all  into the Stooges...

Glam was certainly a major influence... as someone said earlier, just listen to Steve's guitar, but I doubt if the Pistols had heard much about the Ramones prior to the "Bi-Centennial Bop" (or whatever it was called) at the Roundhouse... it was a great show (I recall the Ramones manager shepherding them side-stage to watch the brilliant Flamin' Groovies and pointing things out to them energetically.... it looked most humorous... as had the Ramones running onto stage earlier, going "1-2-3-4" then.... nothing! The amps weren't on... and after some techies ran around feverishly, they came back out and did it again... but this time they ROARED!!!!), and yes nearly everyone who was into what would become "punk" was there, but an influence? The New York Dolls certainly... A friend and I accidentally saw them in 1975 and it was a Dolls-sounding song that made us look up from the bar (it was not until several years later that I realized that we had indeed witnessed an early Pistols show at our local pub! DOH!)

So I  definitely vote "Glam" !!

Cheers, Peter Brat

Kay.  This is the Pleasure Seekers' version.

(Probably...)

E D B D

E...

A...

E...

B...B, B flat, A...

.

.

D, D#, E

The Mummies' version may be a little bit different.  Though, I wouldn't explain it in English, haha. 

kay now i need tabs or chords any help???

just forgot the conjugal visits!
The Raws said:

you guys should check the great munzini&the astonish from india(!)garagepunk.ning.com/profile/thegreatmunzinitheastonish

also we really do like rock n roll adventure kids,they haven t been making any new records though...anyone knows what are they doing lately?

human trash is the other newish band from brasil we really dig.

and we also have to mention thee cormans!

you guys should check the great munzini&the astonish from india(!)garagepunk.ning.com/profile/thegreatmunzinitheastonish

also we really do like rock n roll adventure kids,they haven t been making any new records though...anyone knows what are they doing lately?

human trash is the other newish band from brasil we really dig.

and we also have to mention thee cormans!

Pls don't be "jealous".....ILOVE you guys....for sure you're more garagey than GP &theN......wow, Vermont really dishes out some good hot tunes , it does:):):)!!!!!

ALWAYS ROCK ON :):):)

PERSIAN CLAWS said:

...and after you're done listening to Grace Potter & The Nocturnals, you can listen to another band from Vermont...  PERSIAN CLAWS   xx

That's really weird. I just have the two Garage Punk Unknowns CD comps, so I have no idea what's going on here. Very odd that they would put "Vol. 4" on the label with the track listing for Vol. 3, though. And then to have the same songs as Volume 3...  I dunno, Tim Warren must've been pretty drunk, that's all I can say!

Hi there,

I just need a little help from you, anal garage collectors. 

I just got a copy of an early (how early ? I'm not sure. 2nd reissue ???) edition of the GARAGE PUNK UNKNOWNS vol. 4 compilation (Stone Age records #664). See cover below.

It's in great condition...blah blah blah...BUT, here's the point :

When you look at the label etiquette, you can read GARAGE PUNK UNKNOWNS vol.4 but, as you discover the tracklisting : surprise !!! Same tracklisting as volume 3 !

And when you play the vinyl ??? Suspense...

Damn !!! This IS volume 3 !!!

(Too bad, I already own vol.3...)

Have some of you already heard about such copies ?  Or maybe even own such a copy ?

Do all the copies from this particular pressing suffer from the same "defect" ?

Please help me dispelling my ignorance...

1bassmans are cool

2ac15 would be more garage and nearly as loud but the ac30s better

3would you recomend the hotrod caus i have reservations aount modern amps for such a vintage style

Gonzo said:

I'm currently switching between a 65RI Fender Twin Reverb & Hot Rod Deville. I use a Blues Junior for mostly home use. The Deville has a pretty sweet clean and the gain channel is decent, reverb is very sturdy too. I find my Twin takes pedals a lot better then the Deville, I've used a fuzz face reissue through all three and it sounds like a completely different beast through the Twin. I always prefered the NYC Big Muff but after plugging in that fuzz face holy shit. Obviously the Twin has the better reverb and the tremelo is nice but honestly, I don't think the cleans are THAT much better. Not for the price anyway. Luckily I got mine cheap and only ended up paying $500AUD more for the Twin. I'm contemplating buying a AC15/AC30 though for that invasion/60's garage type sound. Then I might buy a bassman, man you can never have too many amps !

all i know is it looks like a mustang

also the headstock is un branded

I know I'm taking a risk getting a Powertron for the price of 3 or 4 GFS pus, but my guts tell me that it's the right choice (and if not there is always Ebay...).