Downloadable PDF format or read it online:

http://www.scionav.com/music/scionzines/index.html#general2,?zineid=51151

It's pretty much what you'd expect. Lots of articles on (or interviews with) the bands they're working with/supporting. It's not that any of it is bad, per se, but this Scion thing is just starting to get really predictable. And the focus seems to all be about the modern, cutting-edge "garage" bands (most of whom would probably like to shy away from that moniker if they could) with very little if any mention of the great garage rock & punk stuff of the past.

Thoughts?

By the way, I sent Christopher Roberts at Vice Records an interview over three months ago asking him a bunch of questions about Vice and Scion and the whole "garage" marketing scheme... he never replied (and I've resent it to him several times). I just reminded him again. Maybe he'll answer it this time, who knows. I guess if he doesn't answer them I could always just post it here and we could make up our own answers. Heh.

I was just reading up on that! Man, I wish I was anywhere close to that festival. Lest hanging out with the GP crew.


kopper said:

Yeah, I was wondering that, too. Use the "Reply" link under the actual post you're replying to. Makes it easier that way.

BTW, I was at the Scion Garage Fest in Lawrence, but I don't remember seeing Sex Beet. I remember the name being on the little handbills, though. Was most likely at another venue when you guys were playing.

IDON MINE said:

As always, your opinion is respected. Jus' make clear who you are replying to please, there are a couple of different thoughts on the topic swimming round here.

Yeah, I was wondering that, too. Use the "Reply" link under the actual post you're replying to. Makes it easier that way.

BTW, I was at the Scion Garage Fest in Lawrence, but I don't remember seeing Sex Beet. I remember the name being on the little handbills, though. Was most likely at another venue when you guys were playing.

IDON MINE said:

As always, your opinion is respected. Jus' make clear who you are replying to please, there are a couple of different thoughts on the topic swimming round here.

As always, your opinion is respected. Jus' make clear who you are replying to please, there are a couple of different thoughts on the topic swimming round here.

I just stumbled across this and have to comment.

 

I play in a band called Sex Beet. We're originally from a shitty small city called Leicester, in England. Maybe a bunch of you would call us a hipster band seeing as we're all under 25, but I would see us as a garage punk band.

 

Last year we got an email out of the blue asking if we'd like to go over to America and play at the Scion garagefest in Kansas, as well as a show in NY and Austin. We've toured in Europe a few times, and love nothing more than playing in new places. Thats the best thing about being in a band. Going to play in America has always been a dream, which never looked likely seeing as we never had any fucking money. Scion offered to cover our travel, so of course we didn't think twice for a second. What the fuck would you have done? Some people really need to fucking grow up. I had the time of my life on both trips to the US, which were both thanks to Scion & Vice. And for the record, we didn't have to write any songs about how amazing Scion are, or do anything that could remotely be seen as "selling out."

 

I feel like I should also say that I met the guy who's behind this whole project, and he's not what a lot of people seem to think. He's not just some square Scion marketing guy googling "garage rock." He's (clearly) got a great music taste and is genuinely into what he's doing. And he's doing a GREAT fucking job.

 

If you didn't want to go to either of the (free entry) GarageFests because they had a Scion logo on the poster, you missed out on two amazing line ups FOR FREE, and basically you're a far more pretentious dick than I could ever be. Likewise if you don't want to pick up a free 45 with Oblivions or Dirtbombs etc on. Good luck with that.

 

Oh and for the record, even after my great sell-out of 2010, I'm still completely broke, and touring Europe for next to nothing in a beaten up old van.

+ Lest I forget,  FREE Podcasts of all sorts, hehe. ;)

Yep, exactly.

 

Of course exposure is good, bringing new folks in is great. Fans should just dig a little deeper and not buy the bullshit wrapped in a neat package on their porch, but go out and check things out on their own. See where those hip bands got their stuff and work from that, not simply snatch their already watered down styles and live easy on that.

 

Here, we have that thing where a radiostation called FM4 supports young bands like any other big ass station does: Play the alt hits when they are hot, drop them when something new comes along. Problem is: Much of what they play is given to them by labels owend by Sony or BMG Universal, so it's basically the same stuff all over again with a different get up.

They support the bands for one hot selling record, if they fail to sell enough, it's bye bye again. I have hardly ever seen them play Garage stuff or support dates on their show announcements. There was some slight Jon Spencer Blues Explosion playing way back in the early 2000's but only after they had put out several albums. They only talked about Jay Retard when he was dead and whoo, played his last album for a hot minute. Pretty gross.

All you'd hear on that when people asked was: "We have our programming standards and can not play music like that on a regular, daily basis." Standards my ass.  

 

They called themselves "alternative" all thru that early 2000's period but totally overlooked labels like Crypt and In the Red, Matator or Estrus (just name any other smaller/larger Trash labels), which is a LOT to overlook. The most they picked up was the stuff that was already approved by everyone else. Nirvana and the late Grunge hype and the resulting media interest in said alternative music. 

Now what I'm getting at with all that ranting: Where that turns goofy, is when you have a large part of the countrie's (Austria) kids believe in that fake analogy they portrait in their programming and take it for music history canon.

Kids could turn that thing upside down, showing that stuff the finger, show up at some rad show, keep the scene alive in a good way and not cram their skinny asses into already packed hype venue.

 

It never was that easy finding stuff, you don't have the money, download it somewhere. Hell go look on Amazon even, you'll find a Hideout Comp + you'll find so many great records you can download fair and square if you're of the iPod generation. It's not as lost as it was, it's all out in peoples faces now.

C'est la vie Idon Mine. I remember in about 2003 there was a cool punk scene that was about in Britain mixing punk with a British take on hiphop. Not to everyone's taste but it never got big and so apart from KingPrawn, Capdown and then Sonic Boom 6 it all remained pretty underground. But the bands that they played with generally stuck to whatever they felt like, until Funeral for a Friend and Thursday.

 

Then suddenly ever fucking band had black hair over one eye and squealed into a microphone while the guitarist would jump around in circles. It started to really kill the scene because you wouldn't be seeing a fresh British approach to punk anymore but just the regurgitated crap based on Thursday and Funeral for a Friend.

 

I think when this kind of stuff gets popular it's cool that new people get brought into the scene but it can actually ruin them as well when people start turning it into music by numbers. Experimental stuff doesn't get awarded because it isn't cool, the same stuff as what the others are doing is what sells and reinforces a scene.

The thing that irks me with some bands (if you can call them that) that are snatching the Garage label (or Garagepunk therefor) these days, are the ones filled with people that would have started a band named after what ever trend that came in the years before. They make one album and get burned out fast when their second album isn't making the hype machine buzz. Is that lack of fire or what?

 

I mean what's the criteria for hyping this shit, but fitting the imagination of some fashion editor what a cool band has to sound like (or better look like only). There's not much to ask if people that have no musical drive whatsoever are making some band big that is not in for the music anyhow.

 

A couple a years back it was all Franz Ferdinand aka Gang of Four and The Smiths stuff, now it is Black Lips. And these kids playing after that, with looks to match the ones of their idols, are like those second rate 1969 hippies that became the next generation CEO's. 

 

I am behind everyone without character, but hell, these people are so shallow they don't even know who they really rip off. No one can know all the good shit that is the original Rock'N'Roll we all love, but at least TRY and dig a little deeper then some mention of MC5 or the Stooges in a Mando Diao interview.

 

Where I live, there are nearly no Garagebands if you compare them to the numbers of - sorry - new hipster start up bands. And that leads right up to an audience that, by all means of the internet, won't go far in checking for what is really great in bands and records, but stop at whatever the major labels feed them. Same old, same old. And it pisses me off to hear people say: "Hey man, it's only a matter of marketing you know. Just gotta sell it right."

  

I guess what I'm trying to say is, said neo hipster bands can't even sell out cuz they got nothing to make them raw or original to start with. Eh?

I read MRR, wrote for them in the early to mid 80s and am here at the Hideout as well. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I am firmly in the anti-Scion camp and just don't see the benefits and will never understand or accept the point of view of those that do or think that it's an okay thing (I am not going into this again plus there is absolutely no argument that you can present that I haven't heard or could possibly change my point of view). I'm also no fan of the way the term "garage" is thrown around. Most of these so-called "garage" bands are nothing of the sort and are really just boring bullshit indy bands. Any band that people can't label are all of the sudden called "garage" because it sounds cooler than "indy". There's almost no difference between a fair number of these bands and crap that was called indy 10-15 years ago. Any band that says they need corporate money to keep doing what they're doing are sellout pieces of shit. I know MANY bands that have been together and playing for 10,15,20 years and they don't have to bend over and take a corporate dick in their ass. Growing up in the late 70s/80s punk scene made me very anti-corporate (working for a record label and publishing house for 2 years only contributed to my contempt) and I don't think that it has any benefits. We always did everything ourselves (and still do) with a network of like-minded people. With the internet, it's 1000 times easier to network with people and there is no fucking reason at all to suck at the corporate teat unless you just want money. It's a slippery slope and one I will not take a step on. I have turned down corporate money in the past (once for close to 25 grand and another time rejecting a distribution from a label that represented itself as an independent but was owned and distributed by WEA) and I would do it again if they offered me even more. I am not a whore - I do what I do because I love to do it and I am willing to make whatever sacrifices I have to in order to make it happen. If not taking that money makes your life a little harder and you have to make a few more sacrifices to do what you love, so be it. If you can't handle the difficulties and the hard work, you're doing the wrong thing.

Alex said:

The past few issues of Maximum Rock 'n' Roll have had seriously angry rants against the whole Scion scene and the bands that participate in it, essentially claiming that they're inauthentic sellouts, and if they were true "punks" they wouldn't be taking any money from anyone.  I think it's very interesting to see the difference between those who are more into hardcore/punk and read MRR vs. those who are more into garage/rock 'n' here at the Hideout.

I think John meant the Black Lips, not the Black Keys.

I have no problem with The Dirtbombs, The White Stripes and The Black Keys licensing there music or getting the amount of mainstream success they have gotten via Scion and other media outlets (the Grammys). There were plenty of times they were getting paid $10 each for shows etc. The music might have had a period where they were validated by the underground, but that period is short and bittersweet. Check out Henry Rollin's story about fronting The Ruts so Paul Fox's family could make some money before he died of cancer. Henry put 100% into that performance and was concerned with the credibility of subbing for Malcolm Owen.  Right or wrong -- This generation got to see 3/4's of the Ruts for a good cause. Not every story is like that-- the reformed Germs-- I am sure Shane West kills as a replacement for Darby Crash, but I am not buying it. It would be much worse if Scion was coaxing Blacktop back together and Mick Collins was on the same stage as Darin Lin Wood-- don't ya think?

John White said:

My guess is that Scion found out a good portion of their customers were young hip adults. Once that information was discovered they probably hired a outside marketing company who knew what "young hip adults" liked. That's why they advertise in art mags and get involved in garage music. Garage is about the only "cool" music scene that still has rock and roll involved. Must kids like electronic music or are really young and are devoted to pop stars. The other rock scenes are more classic rock driven, that means an older crowd. The company is more then likely made up of late 20's early 30's people who loved The Oblivions and The Dirtbombs and know the new garage bands. I'm sure they read 'zines shopped at record stores and did the same things we all did if you liked garage punk. They ape what they saw as kids and know that if has a retro feel to it, young adults will like it as well. This could go on for awhile, garage rock and lowbrow art will never be mainstream. I really don't think the makers of Scion are fooling anyone, They could give a shit how people find out about their cars, just as long as they do. I like that a company is spending money to associate themselves with garage, I get to watch their movies, read 'zines and see some of my favorite bands get some exposure that they wouldn't have gotten without Scions help. If it means one cool band can stay together longer and do what they want for a living, it's all worth it. Listen to all the so called "music" that's popular, we get to see maybe 3 bands we like make it every 10 years. The White Stripes and The Black Keys are the only 2 I can think of that really "made it" in the last few years. We are smart enough to know whats real and whats fake, that's why we hang out here. Take Scions free stuff, read or listen to it, throw away what you don't like and keep what you do. It's that easy. I think I may have wrote something like this before, so if I did I'm sorry. I'm getting too old to remember everything.

I wouldn't say the Dirtbomb's doing an all covers album of Detroit Techno songs a sellout, or the Spits putting out a horror album, or any of the other bands putting out sucky songs for the 7 inch series a sellout either. MRR has been the vanguard of Orthodoxy for most alternative rock scenes for well over 30 years. If you do anything within arms reach of the mainstream and you come from the fringe-- they will crucify you. It's was they do-- and alternative music culture is all the better for it (I think).

Alex said:

The past few issues of Maximum Rock 'n' Roll have had seriously angry rants against the whole Scion scene and the bands that participate in it, essentially claiming that they're inauthentic sellouts, and if they were true "punks" they wouldn't be taking any money from anyone.  I think it's very interesting to see the difference between those who are more into hardcore/punk and read MRR vs. those who are more into garage/rock 'n' here at the Hideout.

The past few issues of Maximum Rock 'n' Roll have had seriously angry rants against the whole Scion scene and the bands that participate in it, essentially claiming that they're inauthentic sellouts, and if they were true "punks" they wouldn't be taking any money from anyone.  I think it's very interesting to see the difference between those who are more into hardcore/punk and read MRR vs. those who are more into garage/rock 'n' here at the Hideout.

My guess is that Scion found out a good portion of their customers were young hip adults. Once that information was discovered they probably hired a outside marketing company who knew what "young hip adults" liked. That's why they advertise in art mags and get involved in garage music. Garage is about the only "cool" music scene that still has rock and roll involved. Must kids like electronic music or are really young and are devoted to pop stars. The other rock scenes are more classic rock driven, that means an older crowd. The company is more then likely made up of late 20's early 30's people who loved The Oblivions and The Dirtbombs and know the new garage bands. I'm sure they read 'zines shopped at record stores and did the same things we all did if you liked garage punk. They ape what they saw as kids and know that if has a retro feel to it, young adults will like it as well. This could go on for awhile, garage rock and lowbrow art will never be mainstream. I really don't think the makers of Scion are fooling anyone, They could give a shit how people find out about their cars, just as long as they do. I like that a company is spending money to associate themselves with garage, I get to watch their movies, read 'zines and see some of my favorite bands get some exposure that they wouldn't have gotten without Scions help. If it means one cool band can stay together longer and do what they want for a living, it's all worth it. Listen to all the so called "music" that's popular, we get to see maybe 3 bands we like make it every 10 years. The White Stripes and The Black Keys are the only 2 I can think of that really "made it" in the last few years. We are smart enough to know whats real and whats fake, that's why we hang out here. Take Scions free stuff, read or listen to it, throw away what you don't like and keep what you do. It's that easy. I think I may have wrote something like this before, so if I did I'm sorry. I'm getting too old to remember everything.

I'm still convinced the marketing guys behind this just love the music (and the other guys at the company like  rap). If they were fans of hardcore we might have Scion sponsoring Sick of It All or Suicidal Tendencies, etc. This person probably started listening to this genre about 10 years ago. This probably accounts for the lack of mention of anything pre-dating 10 years ago.  So, they are naturally going to report on the current scene, but one whiff of this criticism and I am sure they would be on the phone with The Fleshtones or Cynics to give them cred.

The Hideout should send copies of the comp to Scion and get them introduced to how it's done on the reals.

 

We had our first Scion promoted garage type show this past weekend here in London Ontario...it was at a trendy club that we'd never set foot in.

There was a whole table of Scion merch that was free; ear buds, a Jack Oblivian/Mannequin Men split 7" and the first 2 ishes of their print zine. The zines are about 40 pages, 14 x 18 cm, and printed on fairly good quality mat paper with many colour pics inside. The content, not much that interested me, mainly arty type stuff and lots and lots of plugs for their cars, but that's to be expected. The only thing that interested me in the 2, was an interview w/Mannequin Men. Now inside the front cover are all of the Canadian contacts, so this may be a Canadian version of the zine.

There weren't any Scion reps that we noticed, just the bands sitting at the merch table selling their own stuff.

The people at the club didn't seem to be interested in any of the free merch...i helped myself, they were more interested in being seen and talking amongst themselves. The bands, The Fine Print (who i believe are on the hideout) are from London Ontario and rocked out with their usual early Kinks meets Zombies pop and roll, then there was another awful local combo, then Elk (from Hamilton, Welland and Toronto) put on a really tight Creation on speed type set and the evening closed with Young Rival (Hamilton mod/pop/garage combo) who we didn't catch as we left early.

 

Ah, alright. Don't know what to make of the download only option in this case. It's a fine thing for web based zines to have a way of publishing in a less costy and inexpensive way. But here, it's just another step in a weird direction. Like, "what what do you need to get this shit out to people? Yeah a zine would be great!"

kopper said:

Is it being printed at all? I thought it was just an online thing with a downloadable PDF so you can print it out yourself...

?

Is it being printed at all? I thought it was just an online thing with a downloadable PDF so you can print it out yourself...

?

Like with the other discussions circling Scion/Vice, I think it's basically good that bands like human eye are getting some money from this to waste on their own good stuff. There's a couple of people there that love what they do enough to keep killing it without Scion. Hex Dispenders and all, you know. Some others just seem to jump boat and pick up on whatever is making them a quick buck. But there's always that. As companies go, this will be a fleeting thing. Probably lasting until the next change in the marketing direction, or until this kind of thing doesn't bring back enough.

Concerning the zine: Since that's an integral part of it, I wonder about the whole get up of this in print? Will this be a high gloss affair like vice? Or will it be printed to look cheap and "edgy"? I guess the print run would be in the high mega thousands, which also kind of speaks against the whole zine sentiment. Sure, underground magazines have made it into the nationwide sales chart at times, but they climed their way up and didn't spam events and stores of all kinds and have yet another outlet to sell ads and stuff. This would probably be better titled as a "Rolling Stone with different graphics."

I'm putting together my own little zine right now and I wanna make the layouts from clippings and with Cut an Paste methods, but what do the Veteran zine makers on the hideout say to this Scion mag? WhatWave Dave? ...I know there are other zines with profiles here, but I'm just to dumb to remember now...