Hi!

I read the posts about vocal gear but didn't get the information I was looking for. The thing is, I'm trying to get a good vintage vocal sound for live shows (I guess that's pretty obvious), something warm and a bit distorted like the Sonics or Raw Power from the Stooges (not full lo-fi distortion or reverbed kinda stuff).

Currently, I'm using a digitech vx400 and the gain from the console, but it really doesn't have the warm sound I'm looking for (well, with a digital preamp that's pretty hard to get, even with tube simulation settings). So does any of you know a good tube preamp? It's actually not very easy to get some clear information on the web..

And to get things clear, my budget is quite limited, I don't think that I can afford any hard-to-find-vintage-gear-that-is-the-best-to-get-vintage-sound-of-course!
If it's not possible to find a good tube preamp currently produced, I guess I would go with the "plug your mike in an amp and mike the amp" solution, but then how do you do that exactly? Do I need to plug the mike in a DI box before sending the signal to the amp?

If you have any miracle solution like getting a specific mike, I'm also interested, of course :).
Thanks for you attention!

My way is to connect whatever mic connected to a 15w vox cambridge amp. It'll give a very warm and nice sonics like sound. I haven't tried on a PA or in a recording but for live in small palces / rehearsals its just perfect. 

 

As far as i understand the sonics sound on their records it lays on a lot of factors. I think the tape overload compression plays a key role...

 

 

Well, of course, that's the purpose..

Mardy Pune said:

If you are using that as a live setup you could always get the engineer to throw a mic in front of the amp or just mic it yerself.

If you are using that as a live setup you could always get the engineer to throw a mic in front of the amp or just mic it yerself.

Teddy Jungle King said:

I still haven't bought any tube preamp but I did some tests with a setting inspired by what you all recommanded: Shure 55sh (basically a shure sm57, nothing fancy) into preamp/delay pedal into germanium overdrive into small vox amp (30 years old, the only controls are Tone and Volume, and I'm not even sure about the wattage but I think it's something like 15 watts).

IT SOUNDED GREAT! I used a 50ms delay, the echo having less volume than the dry signal, so you almost can't hear it in normal conditions, but when you turn on the overdrive you start noticing it, it gives a very good rockabilly vibe! It's the first time that I'm using an OD on a mike, but I instantly thought of this one: the Germanium OD by Electro Harmonix, I often use it in guitar because with an other OD before, and the nice setting of course, you can get a Sonics like sound (yes, it sounds like a cranked amp with a pierced speaker, just like the sound of Louie Louie, that made me fall in love with garage instantly). This OD doesn't have a lot of gain, and a very unique texture, very warm (like all effects equipped with germanium transistors), that's why it's perfect for vocals! I'm actually really impressed by this pedal, I usually don't trust big brands when it comes to effects, nothing sounds worse than Boss to my ears for exemple, but Ehx seems to manage to make great sounding pedals with a low cost.

I don't know what this setting will be like without a small amp, because I can't really bring the amp during rehearsals every week, but I'll try it straight into the console, if it doesn't sound well, I'll try to use a tube preamp to see if it helps.
I would recommand to anyone into garage to test the od I talked about, or at least to listen to some demo on youtube, because I've never been that much impressed by a pedal, considering it's price, and I own quite a few boutique pedals!
And no I'm not paid by ehx to do advertising (Though that would be a sweet job for a 18 years old like I am), I'm just very much in love with the sound I got :), I'll try to record something when I have some time so you can judge by yourself the tone you can get this way.

I still haven't bought any tube preamp but I did some tests with a setting inspired by what you all recommanded: Shure 55sh (basically a shure sm57, nothing fancy) into preamp/delay pedal into germanium overdrive into small vox amp (30 years old, the only controls are Tone and Volume, and I'm not even sure about the wattage but I think it's something like 15 watts).

IT SOUNDED GREAT! I used a 50ms delay, the echo having less volume than the dry signal, so you almost can't hear it in normal conditions, but when you turn on the overdrive you start noticing it, it gives a very good rockabilly vibe! It's the first time that I'm using an OD on a mike, but I instantly thought of this one: the Germanium OD by Electro Harmonix, I often use it in guitar because with an other OD before, and the nice setting of course, you can get a Sonics like sound (yes, it sounds like a cranked amp with a pierced speaker, just like the sound of Louie Louie, that made me fall in love with garage instantly). This OD doesn't have a lot of gain, and a very unique texture, very warm (like all effects equipped with germanium transistors), that's why it's perfect for vocals! I'm actually really impressed by this pedal, I usually don't trust big brands when it comes to effects, nothing sounds worse than Boss to my ears for exemple, but Ehx seems to manage to make great sounding pedals with a low cost.

I don't know what this setting will be like without a small amp, because I can't really bring the amp during rehearsals every week, but I'll try it straight into the console, if it doesn't sound well, I'll try to use a tube preamp to see if it helps.
I would recommand to anyone into garage to test the od I talked about, or at least to listen to some demo on youtube, because I've never been that much impressed by a pedal, considering it's price, and I own quite a few boutique pedals!
And no I'm not paid by ehx to do advertising (Though that would be a sweet job for a 18 years old like I am), I'm just very much in love with the sound I got :), I'll try to record something when I have some time so you can judge by yourself the tone you can get this way.

I would suggest running through a small amp and then micing it. It doesn't have to be a small tube amp, solid state will do just fine. If it's small it will probably distort anyway even without built in distortion. That's been my experience.  I would suggest finding a way to split the signal (perhaps a small cheap mixer or a guitar pedal with two outputs) and then run a clean signal to the PA or tape recorder, computer, etc. that way you can blend the signal to taste.

 

Old harp mics look pretty promising too. I've used them before but you may have to try them individually to see how distorted they are. I'm guessing it varies.

 

I'm a little skeptical of any "mojo" that anyone ascribes to small, cheap tube preamps because I think all of them are "starved plate voltage" designs. Which means there's nothing about them that's similar to any preamps of the sixties. However, that doesn't mean they couldn't be used as an effect if you like the sound of them. The end result is the only thing that matters.

Thanks for the advice! But I don't have any small tube amp, and the bigger ones we got, we use them live. I have a small 15 watt vox that is 30 years old though, I think I'll experiment a bit with it. But if you consider the tube amp solution and the cheap preamp one, why not get into the tube preamp? I think that I'll end up buying the ehx one, it can't be bad and has a gain control, I can even change the tubes for better ones If I'm not satisfied (http://www.thevintagesound.com/store/electroharmonix-12ay7-tube-mic-preamp-p-157.html).

I wonder though, can you just simply use a xlr->jack transformer? I heard that I was a bad solution and that it was necessary to use a DI box or a preamp to transform to high impedance. I've already plugged my mike into an amp using that "bad" method and nothing bursted but.. I'm sceptic ^^

 

Oh and if anyone wonders, the sound I get live with my band, using the digitech vx400 in a cheap console in the basement of a bar, is like that: http://www.myspace.com/thewhackattacks (the recording is really crappy, yeah, I know, even in the room it sounded bad anyway because of the huge amount of natural reverb you get when you play in a cave-like place..)


The Vonz said:

Hey Teddy

I too am always looking for new vocal sounds (especially ther garage variety), I use an old layfayette mic from the 60s on a lot of stuff (it is super low fi but not real warm, similar to some of the harp mics discussed here), I also add distortion , reverb and other effects when recording, which work real well.  A few options, run a mic through a little tube amp and you can tweak the gain, reverb etc, or try a cheap mic pr like the one ART sells (30 bucks) see it here>  ART Tube Pre .  I just bought one and will be experimenting with it this week, I will let you know what I come up with (if you care ;-) ).

Peace,

Chaz

Hey Teddy

I too am always looking for new vocal sounds (especially ther garage variety), I use an old layfayette mic from the 60s on a lot of stuff (it is super low fi but not real warm, similar to some of the harp mics discussed here), I also add distortion , reverb and other effects when recording, which work real well.  A few options, run a mic through a little tube amp and you can tweak the gain, reverb etc, or try a cheap mic pr like the one ART sells (30 bucks) see it here>  ART Tube Pre .  I just bought one and will be experimenting with it this week, I will let you know what I come up with (if you care ;-) ).

Peace,

Chaz

Thanks, man! We're realeasing our first EP "Remember the Alamo!" by the end of January!

The Vonz said:

Hey Diogo, this is a side note, but I dig your sound, I checked out your tunage.

Nice work

Chaz

Diogo Augusto said:

Have you thought about using one of these: http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/classic/520dx_gr... ? The two videos on my profile feature me singing through a Green Bullet. I really like how it sounds and maybe it's what you're looking for...

Hey Diogo, this is a side note, but I dig your sound, I checked out your tunage.

Nice work

Chaz

Diogo Augusto said:

Have you thought about using one of these: http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/classic/520dx_gr... ? The two videos on my profile feature me singing through a Green Bullet. I really like how it sounds and maybe it's what you're looking for...

I duct taped mine to a mic stand clip so I can easily grab it and walk around the stage.

Teddy Jungle King said:

No one simply uses a mic preamp? I saw that Electro Harmonix did one, I thought there might be some better ones on the market. .
Also, you can't get the harp mic off the stand, right? Not the best option for a bit of live action ;)

No one simply uses a mic preamp? I saw that Electro Harmonix did one, I thought there might be some better ones on the market. .
Also, you can't get the harp mic off the stand, right? Not the best option for a bit of live action ;)

:) This mic responds very nicely if you increase the gain on the console. It also works very nicely if you connect it to a valve amp. In my case, I was aiming for the sound I got but that's not nearly as dirty as it can get. You'll probably have more replies here but you should searching Youtube or something to see what it can do. The problem is that the mic is meant to be a harp mic so I'm not sure you'll find out anything using it for the voice.

 

Give this one a listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZCq5ojHAFU . I also recorded it using this mic but it sounds a lot dirtier .

Teddy Jungle King said:

It's kinda nice! I'd like a bit more of gain though, it sure sounds rock'n'roll but not enough garage to my taste ;)

Diogo Augusto said:

Have you thought about using one of these: http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/classic/520dx_gr... ? The two videos on my profile feature me singing through a Green Bullet. I really like how it sounds and maybe it's what you're looking for...

It's kinda nice! I'd like a bit more of gain though, it sure sounds rock'n'roll but not enough garage to my taste ;)

Diogo Augusto said:

Have you thought about using one of these: http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/classic/520dx_gr... ? The two videos on my profile feature me singing through a Green Bullet. I really like how it sounds and maybe it's what you're looking for...

Have you thought about using one of these: http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/classic/520dx_green_bullet_harmonica_microphone ? The two videos on my profile feature me singing through a Green Bullet. I really like how it sounds and maybe it's what you're looking for...