I'm helping a friend design a local live music club. I'm interested in your input, what is one or two things about your favorite club that makes it special to you. Please don't just say "the music", I'm looking for ideas. Maybe it's the one foot stage or the way the bar is set up. Maybe you like the fact that there are no windows, or do you enjoy seeing people walk by. If your favorite club has a website, please put the name in your post so I can look it up. Is the name really important to you? list some ideas like "Garage Mahal", anything helps. Just pretend you have the money to build it from the ground up, but capacity will be about 200 people. Thanks in advance for your help.

TOO BAD THE PURPLE ONION (SF) AINT OPEN STILL!! NOTHING COULD TOUCH IT IN THE NINETIES!!

Also, I agree about a good jukebox being a plus. Another plus is not waiting for drinks for an eternity.

I've never seen anyone "glassed." That type of behavior would probably be greatly frowned upon.

I have seen people "canned." In the early 90's at an outdoor festival in my home town, the band Too Much Joy got involved in a beer can fight with the crowd. It escalated into involving full cans (not as much of a waste as you’d think – it was mostly Bud Light and Keystone Light from the frat boys).

I’ve been told that “canning” is done in Chicago (using empties) as a sign of approval like spitting on the performers shoes in some parts of Europe.

This seems counterintuitive to me.

Each locale in the world is different so I kind of feel that the decision of glass or plastic is and should be optional. A lot of people don't realize but the make up of the vessel that your drink is in can kind of alter the taste of the liquid. Glass and ceramics are the best for taste as opposed to plastic or aluminum. But then, I leave in a fairly civilized area of the world, I guess. Not that it doesn't happen on occasion but Seattle really doesn't see a lot of violence in 21 and over places.

Mike Humsgreen said:

In Britain I've had a few friends and aquaintances "glassed", also in Essen there's a rock club called Turok where on some of the heavier nights people lob their empties from the balcony above. And in the club I worked at they had a net to catch the things so that they wouldn't fall on the people below. In general plastic is so much cooler in a rowdy place. Plus when the stuff breaks on the dance floor, the mess it makes stops fun for a long time.


Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

Where do you live that people get hit in the head with glass bottles? I only saw that happen once and it was really a bad dive bar.

In Britain I've had a few friends and aquaintances "glassed", also in Essen there's a rock club called Turok where on some of the heavier nights people lob their empties from the balcony above. And in the club I worked at they had a net to catch the things so that they wouldn't fall on the people below. In general plastic is so much cooler in a rowdy place. Plus when the stuff breaks on the dance floor, the mess it makes stops fun for a long time.

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

Where do you live that people get hit in the head with glass bottles? I only saw that happen once and it was really a bad dive bar.

Rubber Gloves in Denton, TX. It's a big, sweaty black room with a tiny arcade upstairs and a giant metal "Pharmacy" sign over the bar. It's situated away from the main square in an old train switchyard next to Morrison's Corn Kit factory. I still don't know what a Corn Kit is. On summer nights, they'd leave the back loading door behind the stage open, but it never really helped with the heat of 300 crazy kids' bodies slamming against each other. After the show you could sit and wait for the trains to pass, running alongside or throwing shit at them as they raced by. All of my best rock n' roll memories are from seeing a show or playing at Rubber Gloves.

rubberglovesdentontx.com

Where do you live that people get hit in the head with glass bottles? I only saw that happen once and it was really a bad dive bar.

Mike Humsgreen said:

I like clubs that have a kind of coridoor shape with no barriers in front of the stage. The worst club I know is the Astoria in London because it cuts the audience off from the stage so badly with barriers even though the stage is as wide as the club. The Highbury Garage is so much better, saw Guttermouth there and it was a class act because the audience could interact with the band, like in the Underworld but without being able to fall over the stage.

Toilets should be cold and basic but enough of them. Also if you could soundproof them and play folk music with whistles then that would kick arse. I think the Panic Room in Essen pipes forest music or something there.

Keep the drinks in plastic beakers with no glass bottles. Glass gets broken on people's heads and on the floor and isn't pretty.

No comfy seats, it's a club for rockin out and not lounging. Plus I remember working in Octogon in Bangor (no garage music unless you are counting that British urban shite) that comfy seats got messed on and torn up easily. The retarded clientel didn't realise that the cushions they were sleeping on had been vomited on 3 times in one week.

Clubs don't need windows but if you could have some kind of food then that would be cool. Like hot dogs or something. Also what sucks in Germany is that unlike in Britain there is no law obliging clubs to serve free water. And if you have a shitfaced friend or are self in need of rehydration then free water is a must.

Agreed. The Funhouse in Seattle is the same way with the juke box, but they turn it off between bands and the sound guy usually puts in a CD that doesn't gel with the music that's on stage. John Carlucci suggested a DJ and I think that's a great idea. I hired one for my show witht the Woggles back in 2005 and it really made a difference.

MikeL said:

BTW, a really cool jukebox can make the place a real draw. There's a place here in Pittsburgh called Gooski's; it's not much more than a neighborhood bar where bands play on weekends, but they have the coolest jukebox in the city, full of punk, post punk and garage rock classics, along with a smattering of glam rockers.

I like clubs that have a kind of coridoor shape with no barriers in front of the stage. The worst club I know is the Astoria in London because it cuts the audience off from the stage so badly with barriers even though the stage is as wide as the club. The Highbury Garage is so much better, saw Guttermouth there and it was a class act because the audience could interact with the band, like in the Underworld but without being able to fall over the stage.

Toilets should be cold and basic but enough of them. Also if you could soundproof them and play folk music with whistles then that would kick arse. I think the Panic Room in Essen pipes forest music or something there.

Keep the drinks in plastic beakers with no glass bottles. Glass gets broken on people's heads and on the floor and isn't pretty.

No comfy seats, it's a club for rockin out and not lounging. Plus I remember working in Octogon in Bangor (no garage music unless you are counting that British urban shite) that comfy seats got messed on and torn up easily. The retarded clientel didn't realise that the cushions they were sleeping on had been vomited on 3 times in one week.

Clubs don't need windows but if you could have some kind of food then that would be cool. Like hot dogs or something. Also what sucks in Germany is that unlike in Britain there is no law obliging clubs to serve free water. And if you have a shitfaced friend or are self in need of rehydration then free water is a must.

BTW, a really cool jukebox can make the place a real draw. There's a place here in Pittsburgh called Gooski's; it's not much more than a neighborhood bar where bands play on weekends, but they have the coolest jukebox in the city, full of punk, post punk and garage rock classics, along with a smattering of glam rockers.

Being fair to the bands. That reminds me. The person you have doing sound? Pay him or her from whatever the bar makes that night like you would any other employee. As a musician, I got screwed way too many times and then I found out why. Sound person got paid from door admission, FIRST. Ummm, nobody came to see him or her. And bands had to split what was left. Really? I pretty much started choosing only one place to play in town and that was the Funhouse. Only place where I knew the club payed the sound person like an employee and not a rental.

Okay, here's more. I meant to write more the first time around, but I got called away.... The biggest mistakes people make when putting a club together are cutting corners when it comes to the stage & sound system. C.B.G.B's was the biggest dive in town, however, Hilly was smart enough to invest in a great PA & very talented sound men. If you are a serious fan of music, that's where you should put your money. Everything else is a waste of money because it will just get trashed anyway. Face it, this kind of music attracts rowdy people. I've seen club owners waste money on fancy tile in the bathroom & six months later it's all covered in graffiti or cracked anyway. Stay away from cement floors, as Rod said, go with wood. Put as much wood as you can in the music room. Make sure the stage has enough room for at least a 5 piece band and that there are good monitors for the bands to hear themselves. (I agree a monitor behind the drums is also a good idea). Have a secure area for the bands to stash their gear in-between sets. Give the stage easy access for movement of gear from the parking lot to the stage. Ramps to the stage are preferable. Down time in between bands should be kept to a minimum or you an lose the crowd. So making it easy to move one band to the next is crucial. Have decent lighting so the band is visible for the patrons, but don't go overboard. Baking hot lights directly above a musician's head will kill the energy level onstage. Have enough electrical outlets for a full band on each side of the stage. A few fans for the musician's on the side of the stage can really help on a long hot summer night. Keep the admission price low & the drinks affordable. Especially in a recession. Once people are there, they will spend money on drinks but if the door price is too expensive they won't come. Be fair to the bands. They are what brings people through the door. Don't forget that. Make it worthwhile for them to haul all their gear to your club. Pay them & let them have some free drinks. Treat them with a little respect. You're all in this together. Have a DJ in between bands that plays good music that will fit the theme of that evenings bands.

John Carlucci said:

Windows & mirrors are the worst thing you can put into a club for acoustics. It makes for high end distortion.

i guess for cleaning purposes, most floors always seem to be cement or marble because they are easy to mop but they make for lousy sound acoustics. The Comet Tavern in Seattle , while not my favorite place to see shows, has a wooden floor with a light coating. Also, I think there should be some monitors hanging up just behind the drummer as well as what's hanging above the front of the stage. At the Funhouse in Seattle, it's really difficult to hear the vocals if you're right at the front of the stage or standing to the side. You have to be in the middle of the floor or further back to understand the singer and that's no fun. If there were some monitors a little further back, then maybe it would be more fun to be near the front of the stage. As it stands, if you're right underneath the monitors intended for the audience the vocals go right past you. That's my two cents.

John, With all your history this is the only thing you got for me? Can you give me one thing from your travels that really sticks out in your mind? I'm just busting your chops, but if you think of something, let me know. John Carlucci said:

Windows & mirrors are the worst thing you can put into a club for acoustics. It makes for high end distortion.

It's funny because it's true! If you want to get some great natural reverb, there's your place.

LOL, Dave! I love that image of the urinal.

DammitDave said:

At one venue, I played in a go go dancer cage (there was one on either side of the stage). I would rather it had been occupied by an attractive young lady but...

The Mutiny in Chicago has the world's largest urinal (20 degrees colder inside). It's big enough for two people (assuming you have very low personal space).




That's not a glass of beer, its a pitcher! If it's good enough for Andre the Giant, it's good enough for me.

At one venue, I played in a go go dancer cage (there was one on either side of the stage). I would rather it had been occupied by an attractive young lady but... The Mutiny in Chicago has the world's largest urinal (20 degrees colder inside). It's big enough for two people (assuming you have very low personal space). That's not a glass of beer, its a pitcher! If it's good enough for Andre the Giant, it's good enough for me.

A patio outside the venue is really nice....you can cool off after seeing a really hot band and give your ears a break from the inside noise levels. It's also a great place for the smokers to hang out, weather permitting.

Another thing i really like in a venue is friendly staff....nothing turns me off faster than a dick for a doorman or beer slinger...it's also conducive to fights at the end of the night.

A sign of some sort at the entrance to say who is playing, approx times, and how much to get in. It's little things like these that help bring in the people who aren't really sure if they want to come in...and nowadays you gotta get as many people as possible in the doors.

Free parking nearby is always nice, or at least some kind of nearby parking for the out of towners coming to your place.

A dancefloor, or just an area to stand in front of the stage....not tables right up to the stage. You want people to come in and jump around and have fun if you're having live bands. And spaeking of a stage, yes, not just the band on the floor. Any kind of a stage that makes the band visible over the people standing at the front's heads....even just a foot or 2 high. And speaking of the dancefloor....NOT carpet, one place i go to has fucking sticky carpet on the floor that is impossible to dance on...

A good sound systems is essential with a sound booth way at the back of the venue facing the stage...plus a good soundman...it may just be garage punk, but you still need that person that knows what they're doing to make it sound great.

Bar at the back of the venue, or preferably not beside the stage...

Best of luck with your venue....

BTW, you'll have to click the "photos" link at the top of the page. For some reason, that link won't take you straight to that page.

MikeL said:

Here's a link to the photo page of one of my favorite local venues, the 31st Street Pub here in Pittsburgh, PA...

http://www.31stpub.com/home.html

For me, it's about memories. I got my first taste of garage rock at this place, i.e. Cynics, Swingin' Neckbreakers, Fleshtones. I also discovered Manda and the Marbles and the Paybacks at this place, and I also saw the Dictators for the first time at the Pub. My all time favorite local band, the Science Fiction Idols, played frequently at the Pub, along with the Ultimatics and the Cheats. The Takeover UK, another all time favorite band of mine, played there a few times (They were more into the Brillobox scene), but they were still enjoyable at the Pub.

As for the layout and atmosphere, it looks and feels somewhat like a homegrown version of CBGBs, minus the history and prestige. The stage is way in the back, the bar is along the right side, and the place has a very weather beaten look to it. It's also in a rather isolated area, which I kind of like because that gives it an enclave feel.

I hope this helps you out. This is probably one of the most interesting questions ever asked at this place.

Here's a link to the photo page of one of my favorite local venues, the 31st Street Pub here in Pittsburgh, PA... http://www.31stpub.com/home.html For me, it's about memories. I got my first taste of garage rock at this place, i.e. Cynics, Swingin' Neckbreakers, Fleshtones. I also discovered Manda and the Marbles and the Paybacks at this place, and I also saw the Dictators for the first time at the Pub. My all time favorite local band, the Science Fiction Idols, played frequently at the Pub, along with the Ultimatics and the Cheats. The Takeover UK, another all time favorite band of mine, played there a few times (They were more into the Brillobox scene), but they were still enjoyable at the Pub. As for the layout and atmosphere, it looks and feels somewhat like a homegrown version of CBGBs, minus the history and prestige. The stage is way in the back, the bar is along the right side, and the place has a very weather beaten look to it. It's also in a rather isolated area, which I kind of like because that gives it an enclave feel. I hope this helps you out. This is probably one of the most interesting questions ever asked at this place.

Windows & mirrors are the worst thing you can put into a club for acoustics. It makes for high end distortion.