Last weekend, I got to listen to a copy of The Trashmen's Surfin' Bird LP in a record store, only knowing (and quite liking) them for the obvious "Surfin' Bird". I was surprised about how cheesy the rest of the record sounded, and I ended up buying The Fall.

Does anybody else think that The Trashmen are hopelessly overrated?

Cheers, Doc S.

Cheesy usually means this:clearly of cheap quality or in bad style like cheesy hotel music or cheesy advertisements or describes anything which is not sincere "She gave a cheesy grin to the cameras". You're right in that the Tenth Anniversary album of the Ventures is cheesy. It's really bad. I know they'd play a few hits of the day even on their early albums, but that album in 1970 was just bad hits of the day of THAT day. As for The Trashmen and Surfin' Bird, first of all, it's not typical of them. They knew it was a gimick but it got the crowd moving even before they recorded it, which is why they chose it as their debut. Most people in later years consider THAT song cheesy and wonder why they couldn't be more like the rest of their album. It's only after groups like the Cramps and Ramones recorded it and early oldies radio that it would be seen for the genius that it is. Second, you should like the Trashmen cuz it's still rock and roll and it's played real well, AND the songs are good. It's a great collection of tunes which I can't say for a lot of albums from between 1962 - 1964. Doc Sanchez said:

Hi S.Law,

well, ok, I guess I don't know The Trashmen enough, but the late Ventures ARE cheesy (whatever that expression means...), at least this 10th anniversary album, on which they play all the greatest hits of back then, with a sound that's not cool or wild or stingy at all. But I really LOVE the early Ventures that are nothing of what I said about this album.

But apart from that I agree with you about internet discussions. Maybe I should've put it another way from the beginning on and ask, why is it that I thought I really should like The Trashmen, and when I heard this album I was disappointed that it sounded so much different from what I expected from only knowing Surfin Bird, because I expected something more hard and wild and not so much this sunny fun thing (and I don't mean modern sound here, because I prefer this vintage sound to anything indie or rock nowadays).

So, would you say that Surfin Bird is a rather atypical song for the Trashmen?

And, by the way: What does "cheesy" really mean...?

Hi S.Law,

well, ok, I guess I don't know The Trashmen enough, but the late Ventures ARE cheesy (whatever that expression means...), at least this 10th anniversary album, on which they play all the greatest hits of back then, with a sound that's not cool or wild or stingy at all. But I really LOVE the early Ventures that are nothing of what I said about this album.

But apart from that I agree with you about internet discussions. Maybe I should've put it another way from the beginning on and ask, why is it that I thought I really should like The Trashmen, and when I heard this album I was disappointed that it sounded so much different from what I expected from only knowing Surfin Bird, because I expected something more hard and wild and not so much this sunny fun thing (and I don't mean modern sound here, because I prefer this vintage sound to anything indie or rock nowadays).

So, would you say that Surfin Bird is a rather atypical song for the Trashmen?

And, by the way: What does "cheesy" really mean...?

this is kind of why I avoid a lot of "discussion" on the internet. if it's "old", it's "cheesy" or slagged in some form. yeah it's a big big world and everybody has an opinion but it becomes tiring reading reviews or websites that seem to think the world did not begin until 2005 or something. not trashing the Hideout, there is the occassional person I disagree with-like this one-but there are other sites where everything is subject to hipster dismissal. (can't think of any music sites at the moment but the IMDB is a perfect example of moron reviews) I just choose not to read 'em. kopper said:

I'm not really sure I understand your continuous use of the word "cheesy" to describe these bands. >

Cyco Sanchez said: I mean with "cheesy" is when bands or songs miss that special thing that makes them, you know, cool or something. I don't get that from the Ventures or the Trashmen AT ALL. agree to disagree I guess.....

Well, I forgot for a moment til now that the Trashmen did have one moment of cheesiness when Steve Wahrer appeared on Bandstand by himself doing Surfin' Bird. Instead of singing from behind the drumset (that actually would have looked strange without a band), he's dancing while singing (well lip syncing anyway). But this wasn't his fault. Management didn't want to pay air fare for the whole band and this wasn't during a west coast tour or anything. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fruHQhNe-UM

In terms of anything recorded by the Ventures after 1967, I understand your meaning of cheesy. It's not goofy fun, it's goofy stupid. Especially the 10th Anniversary album. The album title itself is deceiving. You were probably expecting all their great songs covering a 10 year time span and you get crap. But I wouldn't describe them or the Trashmen as cheesy. It may not be pounding to the skull stuff but it's not your typical for 1960-64 top 40 either. if anything is cheesy, it's those Frankie, Bobby, and Johnny (no, not Cash. He's great) songs. Or those girl singles sung by teen age actresses trying to make it as third rate Leslie Gores. Yeah, I wouldn't confuse clean professionalism as cheesiness, though. Cyco Sanchez said:

But I have to ask one more thing, without opening another thread: What is this thing about The Ventures? I really love their early stuff, but then I bought this 10th anniversary album and was shocked. It IS cheesy, or am I also wrong in this case?

Actually, this really isn't a compilation. It's the first album with 4 bonus tracks. But I haven't got it (and unfortunately I don't have that box set either), but I can guess what they sound like if they were recorded at the same time. FREDDI said:

Here's one of the Trashmen classics compilations from Sundazed Records and a basic point to begin:

Ah, ok, the word "cheesy" may be the wrong expression, I'm not a native speaker, so sorry about that. What I mean with "cheesy" is when bands or songs miss that special thing that makes them, you know, cool or something. When they sound that touch too sweet, too harmless or smooth maybe. I really love big melodies, big pop and big "kitsch", but by "cheesy" I mean when it's a bit too harmless. Like, The Sparks aren't cheesy, but ABBA is. I hope I could explain what I mean.

I guess it has a lot to do with being used to more modern sounds, but I'd apply the word "cheesy" in much more to modern sounds than to vintage sounds.

Oh dear, what have I done here???


And I didn't want to compare The Ventures with The Trashmen musically, they sound pretty different from each other.

Ventures made a huge discography,and most of their stuff are remakes of classics and soundtracks in their own style. Personally I love their sound,but prefer the original songs of the early released. Can't urge to buy a compilation because there are plenty of it but very few good ones. If you find 'em check among this titles: The Ventures Play the Country Classics- Twist with the Ventures- Surfing - The Ventures In Space - Walk, Don't Run, Vol. 2 - Where the Action Is! - Go With the Ventures!- Anyway if you like this genre you should not miss Chantays,Link Wray,Dick Dale. Check "Garage punk surfcast" and the "Reverb Tank"group here in GRGPNK.com Cyco Sanchez said:

But I have to ask one more thing, without opening another thread: What is this thing about The Ventures? I really love their early stuff, but then I bought this 10th anniversary album and was shocked. It IS cheesy, or am I also wrong in this case?

I'm not really sure I understand your continuous use of the word "cheesy" to describe these bands. I think of this music more as "fun" than anything. Most pop music of that era was done with tongues planted firmly in cheeks. That's because that's the way rock'n'roll was meant to be. Fun, silly, goofy, with big hooks and a strong back beat. Maybe it sounds "cheesy" to you now, but I think it's great. Again, consider the time period, and try to put yourself there. I can listen to an oldies radio station all day (the ones like the Krazy Q here in St. Louis that have stayed true to the '50s & '60s "oldies" format) and it's usually only the teen-age heartthrob crap that turns me off. The only thing the Ventures really had in common with the Trashmen is they both recorded instrumental tunes (well, and they both recorded a lot of covers... but that was true for a LOT of '60s bands, esp. the instrumental ones). Beyond that, they're pretty different bands. The Ventures' sound was a lot more polished and executed in a way that made their music much more accessible to the general public (much like "Telstar" at the time). You didn't hear them doing any songs like "Church Key" or "Bird Dance Beat" with those hysterical vocals. They were just a more serious band, and (correct me if I'm wrong) strictly instro. But the Ventures' early stuff is pretty cool. They were such great musicians (esp. Nokie) that they could pull off just about any cover of a popular hit at the time and turn it into a great instro. And while they did do a lot of surf/beach-themed music, I still consider them more of just an instro band. My favorite album of theirs is The Ventures in Space which is pretty amazing and the first time a surf/instro band used the outer-space theme. I have a collection of their stuff on CD, and it's pretty great, too (the Walk—Don't Run collection on EMI). Every song on it is a classic. I also really like the Ace Records' comps of their stuff called In the Vaults... I think there are three or four volumes. Here's the first one. By the way, if you like the Ventures in Space album, you should definitely check out Jerry Cole and His Spacemen, too. By the way, Sundazed Records has a fantastic series of '60s surf/instro that you should get to introduce yourself to many of the best instrumental bands of that time. It's called Lost Legends of Surf Guitar. Here's Vol. 1. With most '60s band, I stick to their earlier material (with a few exceptions), and the same holds true for the Ventures. Most just began to suck post-Sgt. Peppers (after '67). Cyco Sanchez said:

But I have to ask one more thing, without opening another thread: What is this thing about The Ventures? I really love their early stuff, but then I bought this 10th anniversary album and was shocked. It IS cheesy, or am I also wrong in this case?

But I have to ask one more thing, without opening another thread: What is this thing about The Ventures? I really love their early stuff, but then I bought this 10th anniversary album and was shocked. It IS cheesy, or am I also wrong in this case?

Hi Freddi,

yeah, that was the record I meant. So it's a compilation, which explains a few things. But I'll give it another try.

And since this discussion came to life yesterday, I can't get "King of the Surf" out of my head anymore...

Here's one of the Trashmen classics compilations from Sundazed Records and a basic point to begin:

Hi,

first, thanks for all the recommendations, I guess I'll go a-hunting a little now.

The Cliff Richard comment wasn't meant that harsh at all, rather just descriptive. The very young Richard is pretty good, and I like his voice (even later, when he did this Spanish Rose stuff). But what Kopper said is true - it's the 2010 eyes that make it difficult to get the picture. After having heard the Cramps and all that, the Trashmen don't have that noisy thing. Which is obvious given the time they existed. But still ... I guess I was expecting something similar to Surfin' Bird, and you stated it, Rockin Rod: You have to get past that song to get to know the band.

Ah, and by the way: That Fall album isn't that superb either, but it's got "Kurious Oranj" on it, yay!

Wow Doc, the Cliff Richard comment is pretty harsh. ouch! That's one you save for your worst enemy or when your going toe to toe at the crossroads with satan himself!

But yeah they never really floated my boat either, but I did hear them after I had been listening to Link Wray for a while so they did sound a little watered down so to speak.

I can see where you're coming from with Cliff Richard but it's better than that. I bought the LP on some boot repro label for the song Tube City and was a little disappointed at first (I was expecting some kind of Wailers - Kingsmen kind of action) but it grew on me. Their instros are great and Steve Wahr(?) is a fabulous singer when you get past Surfin' Bird. By the way, Move It (the Cliff Richard tune) is a great song.

Trashmen rule...

of course there is always MENSTER PHIP AND THE PHIPSTERS .....

You're trying to look at a band from 1963 through 2010 eyes. "More wild and weird and strange" than the Trashmen in 1963? They didn't come much "more wild and weird and strange" than those cats, especially with a Top 10 hit! And while I agree that the Readymen were also great, once you get passed "Shortin' Bread," they really didn't have that many great songs. The Trashmen, on the other hand, had dozens. That 4-CD box set on Sundazed is worth having, although it's missing their classic "Kuk." Plus, they influenced everyone from the Cramps to the Untamed Youth. In fact, I got turned onto them after I first heard the Cramps in the early '80s (I figured I'd better hunt 'em down since both them and the Ramones covered "Surfin' Bird"), and they were one of my first real favorite '60s bands and helped open the door for me to find and appreciate a helluva lot more '60s sounds, including the Wailers, the Pyramids, the Astronauts, Link Wray, etc. etc. etc. I'd hate to think what music would be like without the Trashmen being around in the early '60s. Cyco Sanchez said:

Yeah, I know, but still there was something missing... Maybe I listened to some compilation? Like with the Ventures: Their earlier stuff is just plain great, but the later recordings, well, they ARE cheesy.
And this Thrashmen record - a few tracks were killers indeed, but some songs also reminded me of, say, Cliff Richard. I expected something more wild and weird and strange. But maybe the Trashmen are just more fun, and I was expecting something wrong? Any recommendations for beginners?

Or if you wanna hear what a 1960's Minneapolis contemporary sounded like, check out the Ready Men. TeenFink said:

Woah, I couldn't DISAGREE more. You must be out of your mind. The Trashmen are one of the best ever!!

"Cheesy" my ass. It's fun '60s surf & hot rod, man. Insanity from Minneapolis in the early '60s.

Not as surfy but you should check out the fabulous wailers. They are the fuckin best

Cyco Sanchez said:

Yeah, I know, but still there was something missing... Maybe I listened to some compilation? Like with the Ventures: Their earlier stuff is just plain great, but the later recordings, well, they ARE cheesy. And this Thrashmen record - a few tracks were killers indeed, but some songs also reminded me of, say, Cliff Richard. I expected something more wild and weird and strange. But maybe the Trashmen are just more fun, and I was expecting something wrong? Any recommendations for beginners?

Yeah, I know, but still there was something missing... Maybe I listened to some compilation? Like with the Ventures: Their earlier stuff is just plain great, but the later recordings, well, they ARE cheesy.

And this Thrashmen record - a few tracks were killers indeed, but some songs also reminded me of, say, Cliff Richard. I expected something more wild and weird and strange. But maybe the Trashmen are just more fun, and I was expecting something wrong?

Any recommendations for beginners?

Woah, I couldn't DISAGREE more. You must be out of your mind. The Trashmen are one of the best ever!!

"Cheesy" my ass. It's fun '60s surf & hot rod, man. Insanity from Minneapolis in the early '60s.