I have a sneakin' suspicion that he is having trouble as you well know, kopper trying to get everything and everyone on the same page.  Even though a lot of music now is going back to independent labels, they are trying to territorialize everything and not allow certain whoevers to be on other sites where money might be made without them.  Or, at least that is my opinion.  The cake is carved up way to small for this type of endeavor at this point of the record industry, no matter what type of genre you are talking about.  

MikeL said:

Kopper, I'm not trying to start a fight with you, but I met Little Steven a couple of weeks ago in NYC when I went up there to see the Cocktail Slippers.  I asked him about Fuzztopia, and he said it will be launched next year.  My guess is that maybe he's going to do this in conjunction with the ten year anniversary of the launch of the Underground Garage, which will be this April.  Yes, I know you think he's lying to me, or he's just saying that in the hope that it will happen, but I still wanted to say this anyway.

 

Now, I will say this...it sure has taken a ridiculously long time to get this thing up and running.  It reminds me of a documentary about the making of "Heaven's Gate," an epic western that went way over schedule and budget when it was being filmed.  I have no idea why this is the case with fuzztopia, and now I'm starting to think that if fuzztopia ever does get launched, it's going to feel kind of anti-climatic at this point.

 

BTW, the site has been down for quite some time.  This really isn't news to me.

kopper said:

Not sure what happened, but Little Steven's Fuzztopia site has apparently VANISHED!

www.fuzztopia.com

I guess they realized they couldn't compete with the Hideout after all, nyuck nyuck nyuck...

Kopper, I'm not trying to start a fight with you, but I met Little Steven a couple of weeks ago in NYC when I went up there to see the Cocktail Slippers.  I asked him about Fuzztopia, and he said it will be launched next year.  My guess is that maybe he's going to do this in conjunction with the ten year anniversary of the launch of the Underground Garage, which will be this April.  Yes, I know you think he's lying to me, or he's just saying that in the hope that it will happen, but I still wanted to say this anyway.

 

Now, I will say this...it sure has taken a ridiculously long time to get this thing up and running.  It reminds me of a documentary about the making of "Heaven's Gate," an epic western that went way over schedule and budget when it was being filmed.  I have no idea why this is the case with fuzztopia, and now I'm starting to think that if fuzztopia ever does get launched, it's going to feel kind of anti-climatic at this point.

 

BTW, the site has been down for quite some time.  This really isn't news to me.

kopper said:

Not sure what happened, but Little Steven's Fuzztopia site has apparently VANISHED!

www.fuzztopia.com

I guess they realized they couldn't compete with the Hideout after all, nyuck nyuck nyuck...

how ridiculous is this!  I mean, do you think many of us give a shit about the freakin' boss, how lame.  I guess you could sell the autograph on ebay, if you can fathom sitting there for the boring of a show for that long.  I would rather give myself a tattoo with a silversmith tool.  They seem to have lost their mission of what the hell they were trying to accomplish with The Underground Garage, I just hope that the show on Sirius doesn't suffer with this bs.

Not sure what happened, but Little Steven's Fuzztopia site has apparently VANISHED!

www.fuzztopia.com

I guess they realized they couldn't compete with the Hideout after all, nyuck nyuck nyuck...

I have no idea who won those things. I hope they enjoyed the show. todd a williams said:

what about those free springsteen tickets?!

MikeL said:

I did apologize for that remark later on. Yes, it was wrong.

kopper said:

I might also remind you that your first comment in this topic (which was started as an honest critique of his lame website) was "Fuck all of you if you don't like the way LS does things. That kind of purist mentality is just plain childish."

Purist mentality? I think you have displayed that here more than anyone else! How much more childish and purist can you get than telling everyone you disagree with to fuck off?

what about those free springsteen tickets?! MikeL said:

I did apologize for that remark later on. Yes, it was wrong.

kopper said:

I might also remind you that your first comment in this topic (which was started as an honest critique of his lame website) was "Fuck all of you if you don't like the way LS does things. That kind of purist mentality is just plain childish."

Purist mentality? I think you have displayed that here more than anyone else! How much more childish and purist can you get than telling everyone you disagree with to fuck off?

I dig LS solo and with his Disciples MORE than with the Boss, whom I dislike and distrust too :):):)

I did apologize for that remark later on. Yes, it was wrong. kopper said:

I might also remind you that your first comment in this topic (which was started as an honest critique of his lame website) was "Fuck all of you if you don't like the way LS does things. That kind of purist mentality is just plain childish."

Purist mentality? I think you have displayed that here more than anyone else! How much more childish and purist can you get than telling everyone you disagree with to fuck off?

Yes, you're right, I do tend to personalize things, and I really should stop doing that. However, some things have been said around here that I disagree with, and I'm just trying to make my own point. And sometimes I think you overreact as well. You seem to take the UG and Fuzztopia rather personally yourself. And to be honest, I forgot all about this thread until Isabella brought this subject up again. I'm sorry if I came off as a little testy, and yes, I suppose my remark to you was a little out of line. kopper said:

Why are you taking this so personally or trying to make something personal out of it? On one hand you say you don't care, but you sure are quick to defend Little Steven for just about every jab given him here. So what's the story? Are you secretly Little Steven? I wouldn't doubt it the way you're so knee-jerkingly defensive about everything.

And frankly, I don't care if "there are people out there who don't like the way" I "do things." They can set up their own websites/podcasts/whatever. It's a free country. But then again, I don't make it impossible for people to get in touch with me, either. I'm out in the open, and hey, I'm a busy guy, too. Doesn't mean I can't take a few minutes to respond to emails. And, oh yeah, I don't tell any of the podcasters here what they can or can't play on their shows, either. Which is one reason why the GP podcasts kick the hell out of UG.

MikeL said:

Well, it's his operation, and I'll let him run it as he sees fit. All I really care about is discovering new bands and bands that I've never heard of before. Quite honestly, I just don't care about all the Spinal Tap BS that goes on behind the scenes. I'll bet there are people out there who don't like the way you do things, kopper, but that is your problem, not mine. kopper said:

Mike, you're missing Isabella's point. No one cares if you like LS or his stupid show, but it's his dictatorial influence over the music featured that is in question. Why, of ALL people involved in this music scene, is he the ONLY arbiter of cool for that station? How did he become the self-appointed guru of garage? If he really wanted to be diplomatic about this, he'd appoint a music committee to review band & label submissions and come up with a list, rather than putting the kibosh on the DJs adding music to their playlists and having it basically be his own decision. Imagine if there was one guy back in the '60s whose sole judgment it was to say whether a band was good (or "cool") enough to record and release their records? Then where would we be?

MikeL said:

Again, each to his or her own. I like LS, and I like his show, and nobody here is going to change my mind. Of course, I'm not going to change your mind either, so that makes us even. And yes, it is a business, and as you get older, you'll find out that's the way the world works.

Isabella Gloria said:

ack! what makes HIM an authority of taste? I'm glad you see exactly what I'm talking about. that's a hideous way to go about business, but that's what it is, isn't it? just business. I hate what he does in the arena, but it's not like he's the only big head in the music business to have ever acted like scum. thank clapton for garagepunk! [btw.. i listened, and it was far out. poe-influenced garage! doesn't happen every day (; ]

kopper said:

Amen, Isabella! Siriusl (sic), I couldn't agree more.

From what I understand, the ONLY Underground Garage DJ that is allowed to introduce new bands on his show is Bill Kelly. I know this because he introduced a band on my label, The Nevermores, onto his show. Their tune "I Lost Lenore" got a 14-week rotation and lots of great exposure from that, and the band was thrilled. Little Steven remarked later that he though the song was "cool" so I sent him another copy of the CD. Bill's allowed a few adds per month (I think that's how it works). It's my understanding that he is currently the only UG DJ to have that privilege. That's because the legendary producers Kim and Andrew were adding songs that Steven thought were crap and he put a lid on DJ adds. He has been known to bust balls when he hears something he doesn't like. Bill is given leeway since Steven has acknowledged that he used his WFMU show ("Teenage Wasteland") as the prototype for UG and has always treated him incredibly well.

Isabella Gloria said:

I haven't read the entire discussion, but after I saw that 'commercial' on renegade nation, I feel compelled to say that it seems like this Little Steven character represents everything I stand against. The only reason I was ever attracted to the name was because I saw a THEM cd sitting on a shelf of an Underground Garage display at Best Buy a few years ago. He's taking something pure and trying to package it and mass-market it and while I'm all in favor of educating kids about music or whatever he's doing with his "rock & roll high school" [original name, btw] joint, I wouldn't want a guy like him doing it. He's getting on talk shows and spewing drivel disguised [poorly] as passion. I'm starting to think that what all these guys are doing, and the crappy watered-down revival bands that tout themselves as "garage", is completely separate from anything real and from everything garage means to me and so many others. I don't care how awesome the website is when it finally is launched [if it hasn't been already].. it just doesn't seem real to me. [in fact it seems so straaange ;p ]

Blech. That's all I have to say.

I might also remind you that your first comment in this topic (which was started as an honest critique of his lame website) was "Fuck all of you if you don't like the way LS does things. That kind of purist mentality is just plain childish."

Purist mentality? I think you have displayed that here more than anyone else! How much more childish and purist can you get than telling everyone you disagree with to fuck off?

Why are you taking this so personally or trying to make something personal out of it? On one hand you say you don't care, but you sure are quick to defend Little Steven for just about every jab given him here. So what's the story? Are you secretly Little Steven? I wouldn't doubt it the way you're so knee-jerkingly defensive about everything. And frankly, I don't care if "there are people out there who don't like the way" I "do things." They can set up their own websites/podcasts/whatever. It's a free country. But then again, I don't make it impossible for people to get in touch with me, either. I'm out in the open, and hey, I'm a busy guy, too. Doesn't mean I can't take a few minutes to respond to emails. And, oh yeah, I don't tell any of the podcasters here what they can or can't play on their shows, either. Which is one reason why the GP podcasts kick the hell out of UG. MikeL said:

Well, it's his operation, and I'll let him run it as he sees fit. All I really care about is discovering new bands and bands that I've never heard of before. Quite honestly, I just don't care about all the Spinal Tap BS that goes on behind the scenes. I'll bet there are people out there who don't like the way you do things, kopper, but that is your problem, not mine. kopper said:

Mike, you're missing Isabella's point. No one cares if you like LS or his stupid show, but it's his dictatorial influence over the music featured that is in question. Why, of ALL people involved in this music scene, is he the ONLY arbiter of cool for that station? How did he become the self-appointed guru of garage? If he really wanted to be diplomatic about this, he'd appoint a music committee to review band & label submissions and come up with a list, rather than putting the kibosh on the DJs adding music to their playlists and having it basically be his own decision. Imagine if there was one guy back in the '60s whose sole judgment it was to say whether a band was good (or "cool") enough to record and release their records? Then where would we be?

MikeL said:

Again, each to his or her own. I like LS, and I like his show, and nobody here is going to change my mind. Of course, I'm not going to change your mind either, so that makes us even. And yes, it is a business, and as you get older, you'll find out that's the way the world works.

Isabella Gloria said:

ack! what makes HIM an authority of taste? I'm glad you see exactly what I'm talking about. that's a hideous way to go about business, but that's what it is, isn't it? just business. I hate what he does in the arena, but it's not like he's the only big head in the music business to have ever acted like scum. thank clapton for garagepunk! [btw.. i listened, and it was far out. poe-influenced garage! doesn't happen every day (; ]

kopper said:

Amen, Isabella! Siriusl (sic), I couldn't agree more.

From what I understand, the ONLY Underground Garage DJ that is allowed to introduce new bands on his show is Bill Kelly. I know this because he introduced a band on my label, The Nevermores, onto his show. Their tune "I Lost Lenore" got a 14-week rotation and lots of great exposure from that, and the band was thrilled. Little Steven remarked later that he though the song was "cool" so I sent him another copy of the CD. Bill's allowed a few adds per month (I think that's how it works). It's my understanding that he is currently the only UG DJ to have that privilege. That's because the legendary producers Kim and Andrew were adding songs that Steven thought were crap and he put a lid on DJ adds. He has been known to bust balls when he hears something he doesn't like. Bill is given leeway since Steven has acknowledged that he used his WFMU show ("Teenage Wasteland") as the prototype for UG and has always treated him incredibly well.

Isabella Gloria said:

I haven't read the entire discussion, but after I saw that 'commercial' on renegade nation, I feel compelled to say that it seems like this Little Steven character represents everything I stand against. The only reason I was ever attracted to the name was because I saw a THEM cd sitting on a shelf of an Underground Garage display at Best Buy a few years ago. He's taking something pure and trying to package it and mass-market it and while I'm all in favor of educating kids about music or whatever he's doing with his "rock & roll high school" [original name, btw] joint, I wouldn't want a guy like him doing it. He's getting on talk shows and spewing drivel disguised [poorly] as passion. I'm starting to think that what all these guys are doing, and the crappy watered-down revival bands that tout themselves as "garage", is completely separate from anything real and from everything garage means to me and so many others. I don't care how awesome the website is when it finally is launched [if it hasn't been already].. it just doesn't seem real to me. [in fact it seems so straaange ;p ]

Blech. That's all I have to say.

One more thing I'd like to add...LS is the one who put the UG together, and he partially financed it with his own money (Yes, I know he has corporate sponsors, but with the exception of the Hard Rock Cafe, they tend to come and go a lot). Maybe that's another reason why he prefers to do things his way. I'm sure there are times he gets overbearing, and I can attest that he doesn't always make the best decisions, but that's all part of running a business. And yes, it is a business, just like it is for any indie label owner or promoter who specializes in garage bands. They may have originally been motivated by a love for the music, but there is no getting around having to balance the books at the end of the day, hence the need to look for ways to improve the cash flow.

And another thing...a lot of you sound like you feel threatened by LS and his new Fuzztopia site. Do you really think it's going to have any impact on this site? Do you think he's going to steal people away from this site and put it out of business? This site is geared for the long time and/or hardcore garage fans, while LS is trying to reach out to people who are relatively new to garage rock (I'll admit, I'm one of them). I don't see any reason why the Hideout and Fuzztopia can't co-exist peacefully, with each site doing things its own way. Yes, you can piss and moan all you want about the bands that LS plays, but ultimately it really is just a matter of opinion. If you don't like the UG, then you can always stick to listening to the podcasts at this site.

Please keep in mind, Rod, that Gregg Kostelich is not the easiest person to deal with either. I know a few local musicians who've had dealings with him, which they totally regret now, and others who won't have a thing to do with him because of his reputation. Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

Yeah, even with guys like Ed Sullivan and Dick Clark around...they couldn't truly dictate what the kids were going to listen to....in a way, a screwy one but still, they kind of listened to the audiences. The payola scandels of the 50s put the kibosh on what was going to be heard first and what was going to be tossed, so that's a major reason, you had hits in Detroit of Pittsburgh or Seattle or Miami that differed from each other. Steven claims to want to end boring radio but he doesn't realize or seem to care that he's making it boring as well.

Guys like Gregg Kostilich, Tim Gassen, MIke Stax, and even Greg Shaw worked more like a network and shared ideas. And I still don't think Little Steven helps when he has his little beefs with people like the Get Hip crew and Cavestomp just because he doesn't get his way. That hurts garage more than advances it.

BTW, one more thing I want to add...I actually do think that would be a great idea to have some sort of committee to decide what gets played on the UG, and I'm sure it would make the format even better. However, I can also see all the ego clashes and creative differences that are bound to arise in a situation like that, and maybe LS knows this too. Perhaps that is the reason why he chooses to do all of this himself. Yes, it does have it's drawbacks, but collective decision making creates its own problems too. I suspect he has a committee working on fuzztopia, and maybe that is the reason why that project is taking soooo long. MikeL said:

Well, it's his operation, and I'll let him run it as he sees fit. All I really care about is discovering new bands and bands that I've never heard of before. Quite honestly, I just don't care about all the Spinal Tap BS that goes on behind the scenes. I'll bet there are people out there who don't like the way you do things, kopper, but that is your problem, not mine.

kopper said:

Mike, you're missing Isabella's point. No one cares if you like LS or his stupid show, but it's his dictatorial influence over the music featured that is in question. Why, of ALL people involved in this music scene, is he the ONLY arbiter of cool for that station? How did he become the self-appointed guru of garage? If he really wanted to be diplomatic about this, he'd appoint a music committee to review band & label submissions and come up with a list, rather than putting the kibosh on the DJs adding music to their playlists and having it basically be his own decision. Imagine if there was one guy back in the '60s whose sole judgment it was to say whether a band was good (or "cool") enough to record and release their records? Then where would we be?

MikeL said:

Again, each to his or her own. I like LS, and I like his show, and nobody here is going to change my mind. Of course, I'm not going to change your mind either, so that makes us even. And yes, it is a business, and as you get older, you'll find out that's the way the world works.

Isabella Gloria said:

ack! what makes HIM an authority of taste? I'm glad you see exactly what I'm talking about. that's a hideous way to go about business, but that's what it is, isn't it? just business. I hate what he does in the arena, but it's not like he's the only big head in the music business to have ever acted like scum. thank clapton for garagepunk! [btw.. i listened, and it was far out. poe-influenced garage! doesn't happen every day (; ]

kopper said:

Amen, Isabella! Siriusl (sic), I couldn't agree more.

From what I understand, the ONLY Underground Garage DJ that is allowed to introduce new bands on his show is Bill Kelly. I know this because he introduced a band on my label, The Nevermores, onto his show. Their tune "I Lost Lenore" got a 14-week rotation and lots of great exposure from that, and the band was thrilled. Little Steven remarked later that he though the song was "cool" so I sent him another copy of the CD. Bill's allowed a few adds per month (I think that's how it works). It's my understanding that he is currently the only UG DJ to have that privilege. That's because the legendary producers Kim and Andrew were adding songs that Steven thought were crap and he put a lid on DJ adds. He has been known to bust balls when he hears something he doesn't like. Bill is given leeway since Steven has acknowledged that he used his WFMU show ("Teenage Wasteland") as the prototype for UG and has always treated him incredibly well.

Isabella Gloria said:

I haven't read the entire discussion, but after I saw that 'commercial' on renegade nation, I feel compelled to say that it seems like this Little Steven character represents everything I stand against. The only reason I was ever attracted to the name was because I saw a THEM cd sitting on a shelf of an Underground Garage display at Best Buy a few years ago. He's taking something pure and trying to package it and mass-market it and while I'm all in favor of educating kids about music or whatever he's doing with his "rock & roll high school" [original name, btw] joint, I wouldn't want a guy like him doing it. He's getting on talk shows and spewing drivel disguised [poorly] as passion. I'm starting to think that what all these guys are doing, and the crappy watered-down revival bands that tout themselves as "garage", is completely separate from anything real and from everything garage means to me and so many others. I don't care how awesome the website is when it finally is launched [if it hasn't been already].. it just doesn't seem real to me. [in fact it seems so straaange ;p ]

Blech. That's all I have to say.

Thank you very much, Ruby. Ruby Soleil said:

I agree with Mike. Think of LS as the gateway drug to garage. Like it or not there has to be a future and LS is marketing to very young music lovers who don't have the same past history as most hideout members. They have a different set of needs and whoever wins that guitar will resell it on ebay. They are coming to this from a different point of view, mindset and experience than someone much older, as we all seem to be based on the spirited comments made. Btw, I think SWT was just poking fun at the marketing. Whatever works to get new kids interested in good music is probably fine with LS even if it's cheesy. Eventually kids get bored with what got them there, (LS show or his new forum or a band like the supersuckers) and start looking for more and better music. Maybe they will find the hideout and donate some of those ebay funds. So, I don't see that LS new forum or whatever is such a big deal, cheesy marketing aside, but I bet that even makes him puke at times. He likes what he likes and does help promote others and to do so he has to use his resources to promote his ventures first. I think overall it will just end up helping more than hurting. I mean if the world can survive the Donna's, or whatever played out revival band you hate, it can survive this.

Do you ever stop and think that maybe he's a very busy man who can't respond to everything? Ko Melina talked on her show one time about how she used to have dinner with LS when she would visit NYC, then dinner became lunch, then lunch became 20 minute coffees, and now when she walks into his office, he tells her, "I've got five minutes to talk to you." kopper said:

Trust me, the younger crop of rock'n'roll kids out there into the new-fangled garage/punk/wave/trash/noise don't care. Underground Garage ain't on their radar, nor do they need it to be. Look at the Scion Garage Fest lineup. How many of those bands get spun on Underground Garage? Probably the Gories, Raveonettes and Greenhornes, and maybe the Oblivians, but I bet that's it. The bands at Gonerfest? Ha! Right.

Not only that, but Little Steven is unapproachable. Have you ever tried to email the guy? Good luck! Follow him on Twitter? Fine, but he doesn't follow anyone back. WTF? How can you deal with a person like that?

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

Yeah, even with guys like Ed Sullivan and Dick Clark around...they couldn't truly dictate what the kids were going to listen to....in a way, a screwy one but still, they kind of listened to the audiences. The payola scandels of the 50s put the kibosh on what was going to be heard first and what was going to be tossed, so that's a major reason, you had hits in Detroit of Pittsburgh or Seattle or Miami that differed from each other. Steven claims to want to end boring radio but he doesn't realize or seem to care that he's making it boring as well. Guys like Gregg Kostilich, Tim Gassen, MIke Stax, and even Greg Shaw worked more like a network and shared ideas. And I still don't think Little Steven helps when he has his little beefs with people like the Get Hip crew and Cavestomp just because he doesn't get his way. That hurts garage more than advances it.

Well, it's his operation, and I'll let him run it as he sees fit. All I really care about is discovering new bands and bands that I've never heard of before. Quite honestly, I just don't care about all the Spinal Tap BS that goes on behind the scenes. I'll bet there are people out there who don't like the way you do things, kopper, but that is your problem, not mine. kopper said:

Mike, you're missing Isabella's point. No one cares if you like LS or his stupid show, but it's his dictatorial influence over the music featured that is in question. Why, of ALL people involved in this music scene, is he the ONLY arbiter of cool for that station? How did he become the self-appointed guru of garage? If he really wanted to be diplomatic about this, he'd appoint a music committee to review band & label submissions and come up with a list, rather than putting the kibosh on the DJs adding music to their playlists and having it basically be his own decision. Imagine if there was one guy back in the '60s whose sole judgment it was to say whether a band was good (or "cool") enough to record and release their records? Then where would we be?

MikeL said:

Again, each to his or her own. I like LS, and I like his show, and nobody here is going to change my mind. Of course, I'm not going to change your mind either, so that makes us even. And yes, it is a business, and as you get older, you'll find out that's the way the world works.

Isabella Gloria said:

ack! what makes HIM an authority of taste? I'm glad you see exactly what I'm talking about. that's a hideous way to go about business, but that's what it is, isn't it? just business. I hate what he does in the arena, but it's not like he's the only big head in the music business to have ever acted like scum. thank clapton for garagepunk! [btw.. i listened, and it was far out. poe-influenced garage! doesn't happen every day (; ]

kopper said:

Amen, Isabella! Siriusl (sic), I couldn't agree more.

From what I understand, the ONLY Underground Garage DJ that is allowed to introduce new bands on his show is Bill Kelly. I know this because he introduced a band on my label, The Nevermores, onto his show. Their tune "I Lost Lenore" got a 14-week rotation and lots of great exposure from that, and the band was thrilled. Little Steven remarked later that he though the song was "cool" so I sent him another copy of the CD. Bill's allowed a few adds per month (I think that's how it works). It's my understanding that he is currently the only UG DJ to have that privilege. That's because the legendary producers Kim and Andrew were adding songs that Steven thought were crap and he put a lid on DJ adds. He has been known to bust balls when he hears something he doesn't like. Bill is given leeway since Steven has acknowledged that he used his WFMU show ("Teenage Wasteland") as the prototype for UG and has always treated him incredibly well.

Isabella Gloria said:

I haven't read the entire discussion, but after I saw that 'commercial' on renegade nation, I feel compelled to say that it seems like this Little Steven character represents everything I stand against. The only reason I was ever attracted to the name was because I saw a THEM cd sitting on a shelf of an Underground Garage display at Best Buy a few years ago. He's taking something pure and trying to package it and mass-market it and while I'm all in favor of educating kids about music or whatever he's doing with his "rock & roll high school" [original name, btw] joint, I wouldn't want a guy like him doing it. He's getting on talk shows and spewing drivel disguised [poorly] as passion. I'm starting to think that what all these guys are doing, and the crappy watered-down revival bands that tout themselves as "garage", is completely separate from anything real and from everything garage means to me and so many others. I don't care how awesome the website is when it finally is launched [if it hasn't been already].. it just doesn't seem real to me. [in fact it seems so straaange ;p ]

Blech. That's all I have to say.

Trust me, the younger crop of rock'n'roll kids out there into the new-fangled garage/punk/wave/trash/noise don't care. Underground Garage ain't on their radar, nor do they need it to be. Look at the Scion Garage Fest lineup. How many of those bands get spun on Underground Garage? Probably the Gories, Raveonettes and Greenhornes, and maybe the Oblivians, but I bet that's it. The bands at Gonerfest? Ha! Right. Not only that, but Little Steven is unapproachable. Have you ever tried to email the guy? Good luck! Follow him on Twitter? Fine, but he doesn't follow anyone back. WTF? How can you deal with a person like that? Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

Yeah, even with guys like Ed Sullivan and Dick Clark around...they couldn't truly dictate what the kids were going to listen to....in a way, a screwy one but still, they kind of listened to the audiences. The payola scandels of the 50s put the kibosh on what was going to be heard first and what was going to be tossed, so that's a major reason, you had hits in Detroit of Pittsburgh or Seattle or Miami that differed from each other. Steven claims to want to end boring radio but he doesn't realize or seem to care that he's making it boring as well. Guys like Gregg Kostilich, Tim Gassen, MIke Stax, and even Greg Shaw worked more like a network and shared ideas. And I still don't think Little Steven helps when he has his little beefs with people like the Get Hip crew and Cavestomp just because he doesn't get his way. That hurts garage more than advances it.

Yeah, even with guys like Ed Sullivan and Dick Clark around...they couldn't truly dictate what the kids were going to listen to....in a way, a screwy one but still, they kind of listened to the audiences. The payola scandels of the 50s put the kibosh on what was going to be heard first and what was going to be tossed, so that's a major reason, you had hits in Detroit of Pittsburgh or Seattle or Miami that differed from each other. Steven claims to want to end boring radio but he doesn't realize or seem to care that he's making it boring as well.

Guys like Gregg Kostilich, Tim Gassen, MIke Stax, and even Greg Shaw worked more like a network and shared ideas. And I still don't think Little Steven helps when he has his little beefs with people like the Get Hip crew and Cavestomp just because he doesn't get his way. That hurts garage more than advances it.

Mike, you're missing Isabella's point. No one cares if you like LS or his stupid show, but it's his dictatorial influence over the music featured that is in question. Why, of ALL people involved in this music scene, is he the ONLY arbiter of cool for that station? How did he become the self-appointed guru of garage? If he really wanted to be diplomatic about this, he'd appoint a music committee to review band & label submissions and come up with a list, rather than putting the kibosh on the DJs adding music to their playlists and having it basically be his own decision. Imagine if there was one guy back in the '60s whose sole judgment it was to say whether a band was good (or "cool") enough to record and release their records? Then where would we be? MikeL said:

Again, each to his or her own. I like LS, and I like his show, and nobody here is going to change my mind. Of course, I'm not going to change your mind either, so that makes us even. And yes, it is a business, and as you get older, you'll find out that's the way the world works.

Isabella Gloria said:

ack! what makes HIM an authority of taste? I'm glad you see exactly what I'm talking about. that's a hideous way to go about business, but that's what it is, isn't it? just business. I hate what he does in the arena, but it's not like he's the only big head in the music business to have ever acted like scum. thank clapton for garagepunk! [btw.. i listened, and it was far out. poe-influenced garage! doesn't happen every day (; ]

kopper said:

Amen, Isabella! Siriusl (sic), I couldn't agree more.

From what I understand, the ONLY Underground Garage DJ that is allowed to introduce new bands on his show is Bill Kelly. I know this because he introduced a band on my label, The Nevermores, onto his show. Their tune "I Lost Lenore" got a 14-week rotation and lots of great exposure from that, and the band was thrilled. Little Steven remarked later that he though the song was "cool" so I sent him another copy of the CD. Bill's allowed a few adds per month (I think that's how it works). It's my understanding that he is currently the only UG DJ to have that privilege. That's because the legendary producers Kim and Andrew were adding songs that Steven thought were crap and he put a lid on DJ adds. He has been known to bust balls when he hears something he doesn't like. Bill is given leeway since Steven has acknowledged that he used his WFMU show ("Teenage Wasteland") as the prototype for UG and has always treated him incredibly well.

Isabella Gloria said:

I haven't read the entire discussion, but after I saw that 'commercial' on renegade nation, I feel compelled to say that it seems like this Little Steven character represents everything I stand against. The only reason I was ever attracted to the name was because I saw a THEM cd sitting on a shelf of an Underground Garage display at Best Buy a few years ago. He's taking something pure and trying to package it and mass-market it and while I'm all in favor of educating kids about music or whatever he's doing with his "rock & roll high school" [original name, btw] joint, I wouldn't want a guy like him doing it. He's getting on talk shows and spewing drivel disguised [poorly] as passion. I'm starting to think that what all these guys are doing, and the crappy watered-down revival bands that tout themselves as "garage", is completely separate from anything real and from everything garage means to me and so many others. I don't care how awesome the website is when it finally is launched [if it hasn't been already].. it just doesn't seem real to me. [in fact it seems so straaange ;p ]

Blech. That's all I have to say.

I agree with Mike. Think of LS as the gateway drug to garage. Like it or not there has to be a future and LS is marketing to very young music lovers who don't have the same past history as most hideout members. They have a different set of needs and whoever wins that guitar will resell it on ebay. They are coming to this from a different point of view, mindset and experience than someone much older, as we all seem to be based on the spirited comments made. Btw, I think SWT was just poking fun at the marketing. Whatever works to get new kids interested in good music is probably fine with LS even if it's cheesy. Eventually kids get bored with what got them there, (LS show or his new forum or a band like the supersuckers) and start looking for more and better music. Maybe they will find the hideout and donate some of those ebay funds. So, I don't see that LS new forum or whatever is such a big deal, cheesy marketing aside, but I bet that even makes him puke at times. He likes what he likes and does help promote others and to do so he has to use his resources to promote his ventures first. I think overall it will just end up helping more than hurting. I mean if the world can survive the Donna's, or whatever played out revival band you hate, it can survive this.

Again, each to his or her own. I like LS, and I like his show, and nobody here is going to change my mind. Of course, I'm not going to change your mind either, so that makes us even. And yes, it is a business, and as you get older, you'll find out that's the way the world works. Isabella Gloria said:

ack! what makes HIM an authority of taste? I'm glad you see exactly what I'm talking about. that's a hideous way to go about business, but that's what it is, isn't it? just business. I hate what he does in the arena, but it's not like he's the only big head in the music business to have ever acted like scum. thank clapton for garagepunk! [btw.. i listened, and it was far out. poe-influenced garage! doesn't happen every day (; ]

kopper said:

Amen, Isabella! Siriusl (sic), I couldn't agree more.

From what I understand, the ONLY Underground Garage DJ that is allowed to introduce new bands on his show is Bill Kelly. I know this because he introduced a band on my label, The Nevermores, onto his show. Their tune "I Lost Lenore" got a 14-week rotation and lots of great exposure from that, and the band was thrilled. Little Steven remarked later that he though the song was "cool" so I sent him another copy of the CD. Bill's allowed a few adds per month (I think that's how it works). It's my understanding that he is currently the only UG DJ to have that privilege. That's because the legendary producers Kim and Andrew were adding songs that Steven thought were crap and he put a lid on DJ adds. He has been known to bust balls when he hears something he doesn't like. Bill is given leeway since Steven has acknowledged that he used his WFMU show ("Teenage Wasteland") as the prototype for UG and has always treated him incredibly well.

Isabella Gloria said:

I haven't read the entire discussion, but after I saw that 'commercial' on renegade nation, I feel compelled to say that it seems like this Little Steven character represents everything I stand against. The only reason I was ever attracted to the name was because I saw a THEM cd sitting on a shelf of an Underground Garage display at Best Buy a few years ago. He's taking something pure and trying to package it and mass-market it and while I'm all in favor of educating kids about music or whatever he's doing with his "rock & roll high school" [original name, btw] joint, I wouldn't want a guy like him doing it. He's getting on talk shows and spewing drivel disguised [poorly] as passion. I'm starting to think that what all these guys are doing, and the crappy watered-down revival bands that tout themselves as "garage", is completely separate from anything real and from everything garage means to me and so many others. I don't care how awesome the website is when it finally is launched [if it hasn't been already].. it just doesn't seem real to me. [in fact it seems so straaange ;p ]

Blech. That's all I have to say.

Whatever. Each to his or her own. Isabella Gloria said:

I'll never completely discount an entire genre, but MOST of what I've heard from the revival genre, I don't like. I certainly am not a fan of the chesterfield kings, sorry /: I never set a limit.. I don't stick to one era. I like the cramps--some people consider them somewhat of a revival band, I think--and I've heard some gories stuff I like.. and there are plenty of unknown garage bands out there now that I dig. If I hear something I dig, I'll admit it. I just haven't heard any revival that I've liked, basically ;p what irks me is that mosta these bands call themselves 'garage'.. a certain LA-area band comes to mind.. but I digress.

MikeL said:

Actually, I'm referring to the Cynics of Pittsburgh, PA. And if you prefer the original garage bands of the 60s, that's fine, but keep in mind that a lot of people here like those revival bands too, and many of them have put out some great product. I can understand hardcore fans not liking the Strokes or the Hives (They are rather watered down), but for many, the Cynics and the Chesterfield Kings are considered to be the real deal.

BTW, I only asked because I thought your position was somewhat unusual at the moment. Then again, I've gone through this before with other genres, i.e. people only liking classic 70s prog rock, or headbangers only liking old school 70s metal or 80s hair metal, etc. Come to think of it, that's the basis of classic rock radio; it's meant for people who only want to hear the stuff they grew up on, and for young kids who want to tap into bygone eras.

If you just want to stick to a certain era, that's your business, but I also feel that you miss out on a lot when you do so. I love hearing classic songs by the Sonics and the Count Five when I listen to the Underground Garage channel on Sirius/XM, but I love hearing new stuff too by the Chesterfield Kings and the Cocktail Slippers.

Isabella Gloria said:

No, I don't like the Cynics.. unless you're talking about the Cynics from Fort Worth, which you're not (; WTF, the chesterfield kings & the cynics are NOT to garage as black sabbath is to heavy metal. you could replace those bands with sooo many other bands, like the sonics.. that works! if I disliked the sonics, I could see how you'd justify getting on my ass about this. I don't like revival. I like garage. I am a garage fan, not a revival fan. I don't like any of that watered-down filtered out refined junk. Sorry. Like I said, to each her own, luv!

MikeL said:

How can you call yourself a garage rock fan and not like the Cynics and the Chesterfield Kings (If those are the bands you're referring to)? You can argue that a lot of the contemporary bands that Little Steven plays aren't "true" garage bands (According to however you define "garage"), but the Cynics and the Chesterfield Kings are, to my mind, as pure as it gets. It's like being a hardcore metal fan and not liking Black Sabbath.

Isabella Gloria said:

bahahha! I must be absolutely abhorrent for butting in but I found this hilarious since I don't like either of those bands.. I wish you would've been arguing with me instead. Then I could be like 'wtffff they bloooowwww' [no offense to any fans of those bands; to each their own!]

MikeL said:

Nobody invited you to the concert anyway. And if Little Steven is so out of touch, then that means you can't listen to anything he plays, including bands that you like. If you're a fan of the Chesterfield Kings, then you can't like them anymore because they're on his label. And you can't like the Cynics anymore either, since he liked them enough to play them on his radio show in the early days (Before he and Gregg had their school yard spat).
todd a williams said:

the last thing i need is some springstein tix. man, that little steven is outta touch!

Kopper, I appreciate your input on the Cynics and the Chesterfield Kings. I also love the "Rock'n'Roll" album, and the "Get Our Way" album is great too. However, I would like to point out that Little Steven was doing something completely different back in the 80s, but now he's trying to help out many of those bands who've been working so hard to keep garage rock alive. I don't like everything that he plays on his show, but I still appreciate his efforts. It's because of LS that I got into the Chesterfield Kings. kopper said:

I don't think the Chesterfield Kings and the Cynics are the prototypical "garage rock" bands around, but then again I don't dislike either of them. In fact, I like the Cynics (we're talking the ones from Pittsburgh, here) quite a lot. I also think their releases have been more consistent over the years than a band like the Fleshtones, who IMHO have released some real stinkers amidst some pretty great records. The Cynics' LP "Rock'n'Roll" from 1989 is one of the best of that decade. I can't see anyone into garage in any of its various forms not appreciating that one at least for the great album that it is. "Get Our Way" is another great album.

And live, the Cynics have never disappointed me, either. They tore shit up (literally, too, I might add, as Michael busted out the ceiling with his mic stand) at Las Vegas Grind and they also came through St. Louis several years back. There's nothing "watered down" about their sound. And I saw the Chesterfield Kings open for the New York Dolls in St. Louis a few years ago and the Kings fucking STOLE THE SHOW (the Supersuckers were also on the bill and, ahem, supersucked). If you want to talk about "watered-down" garage, then look to the other crap that LS plays, but I think it's unfair to lump bands like the Chesterfield Kings or the Cynics into that crowd.

By the way, I might also add that both of those bands were doing a lot more during the '80s and '90s to promote '60s garage and REAL rock'n'roll to kids everywhere than Little Steven was doing by playing in Bruce Springstink's band.

The Cynics - You Got the Love

Isabella Gloria said:

No, I don't like the Cynics.. unless you're talking about the Cynics from Fort Worth, which you're not (; WTF, the chesterfield kings & the cynics are NOT to garage as black sabbath is to heavy metal. you could replace those bands with sooo many other bands, like the sonics.. that works! if I disliked the sonics, I could see how you'd justify getting on my ass about this. I don't like revival. I like garage. I am a garage fan, not a revival fan. I don't like any of that watered-down filtered out refined junk. Sorry. Like I said, to each her own, luv! MikeL said:

How can you call yourself a garage rock fan and not like the Cynics and the Chesterfield Kings (If those are the bands you're referring to)? You can argue that a lot of the contemporary bands that Little Steven plays aren't "true" garage bands (According to however you define "garage"), but the Cynics and the Chesterfield Kings are, to my mind, as pure as it gets. It's like being a hardcore metal fan and not liking Black Sabbath.

Isabella Gloria said:

bahahha! I must be absolutely abhorrent for butting in but I found this hilarious since I don't like either of those bands.. I wish you would've been arguing with me instead. Then I could be like 'wtffff they bloooowwww' [no offense to any fans of those bands; to each their own!]

MikeL said:

Nobody invited you to the concert anyway. And if Little Steven is so out of touch, then that means you can't listen to anything he plays, including bands that you like. If you're a fan of the Chesterfield Kings, then you can't like them anymore because they're on his label. And you can't like the Cynics anymore either, since he liked them enough to play them on his radio show in the early days (Before he and Gregg had their school yard spat).
todd a williams said:

the last thing i need is some springstein tix. man, that little steven is outta touch!

I don't think the Chesterfield Kings and the Cynics are the prototypical "garage rock" bands around, but then again I don't dislike either of them. In fact, I like the Cynics (we're talking the ones from Pittsburgh, here) quite a lot. I also think their releases have been more consistent over the years than a band like the Fleshtones, who IMHO have released some real stinkers amidst some pretty great records. The Cynics' LP "Rock'n'Roll" from 1989 is one of the best of that decade. I can't see anyone into garage in any of its various forms not appreciating that one at least for the great album that it is. "Get Our Way" is another great album. And live, the Cynics have never disappointed me, either. They tore shit up (literally, too, I might add, as Michael busted out the ceiling with his mic stand) at Las Vegas Grind and they also came through St. Louis several years back. There's nothing "watered down" about their sound. And I saw the Chesterfield Kings open for the New York Dolls in St. Louis a few years ago and the Kings fucking STOLE THE SHOW (the Supersuckers were also on the bill and, ahem, supersucked). If you want to talk about "watered-down" garage, then look to the other crap that LS plays, but I think it's unfair to lump bands like the Chesterfield Kings or the Cynics into that crowd. By the way, I might also add that both of those bands were doing a lot more during the '80s and '90s to promote '60s garage and REAL rock'n'roll to kids everywhere than Little Steven was doing by playing in Bruce Springstink's band. The Cynics - You Got the Love Isabella Gloria said:

No, I don't like the Cynics.. unless you're talking about the Cynics from Fort Worth, which you're not (; WTF, the chesterfield kings & the cynics are NOT to garage as black sabbath is to heavy metal. you could replace those bands with sooo many other bands, like the sonics.. that works! if I disliked the sonics, I could see how you'd justify getting on my ass about this. I don't like revival. I like garage. I am a garage fan, not a revival fan. I don't like any of that watered-down filtered out refined junk. Sorry. Like I said, to each her own, luv! MikeL said:

How can you call yourself a garage rock fan and not like the Cynics and the Chesterfield Kings (If those are the bands you're referring to)? You can argue that a lot of the contemporary bands that Little Steven plays aren't "true" garage bands (According to however you define "garage"), but the Cynics and the Chesterfield Kings are, to my mind, as pure as it gets. It's like being a hardcore metal fan and not liking Black Sabbath.

Isabella Gloria said:

bahahha! I must be absolutely abhorrent for butting in but I found this hilarious since I don't like either of those bands.. I wish you would've been arguing with me instead. Then I could be like 'wtffff they bloooowwww' [no offense to any fans of those bands; to each their own!]

MikeL said:

Nobody invited you to the concert anyway. And if Little Steven is so out of touch, then that means you can't listen to anything he plays, including bands that you like. If you're a fan of the Chesterfield Kings, then you can't like them anymore because they're on his label. And you can't like the Cynics anymore either, since he liked them enough to play them on his radio show in the early days (Before he and Gregg had their school yard spat).
todd a williams said:

the last thing i need is some springstein tix. man, that little steven is outta touch!