So i know the word PUNK covers a lot of ground, but when i hear people say THE CLASH are one of their fave punk bands... it makes me wonder.

Me? I loves me some Clash BUT my least favorite of their output would be their first self titled album [the only true punk one] and GIVE 'EM ENOUGH ROPE which i think was an abortion. They didn't even like it themselves.

So this leaves us with LONDON CALLING - which is pure and simple rock 'n' roll.

SANDINISTA - mainly funk, dub reggae, hip-hop and soul.

COMBAT ROCK - basically the musical equivalent of an arthouse movie.

CUT THE CRAP - i won't even comment on this one, for obvious reasons.

So none of these are really PUNK in any way.

... what do YOU think. do people just name them as they are easily identifiable? do you think their only PUNK album was the first one? or am i completely wrong?

I like your response the most. I mean look at second wave ska, there definately is some punk in there even if it isn't so vivid. And Strummer progressed away from what was obviousely punk rock into kind of uncharted territories. It's only natural that a band that lasts more than a decade would start creating fusions with their existing styles. Look at the Red Hot Chillie Peppers, they started out funk punk and retained the funk mostly and dropped the punk to make a more pop rock style.

Live Unsigned said:

When The Clash were making records the definition of punk was up for grabs: to say that 'The Clash' is their only punk album is to mistake distorted guitars for the definition of the style, but there are a lot of bands from the last 30-35 years that have taken a far more rockabilly influenced approach to punk. It's just that with the success of hardcore it's easy for people to think that's the only punk bloodline. I also know a lot of punk and hardcore bands that are prone to outbreaks of reggae and dub, that's a long standing relationship in the UK.

Is Sandinista an album of punk rock songs? No, obviously not. It's an album of probing, creative experimentation, and given the band's background in the punk scene, one of the most courageous artistic statements of the late C.20. I'd sooner listen to someone trying to find a new path in music than someone retreading the sounds of the past: nostalgia peddling conservatism is definitely what punk is NOT, although a lot of people pursue just that agenda nowadays using punk rock sounds.

Ha, the first album is one of my all-time favorites. I think the second still has some good stuff, and think LONDON CALLING is a great album but one I can occasionally get sick of hearing--or rather, hearing about.

The rest...not so much, really, but the first one especially was a HUGE part of my life.

When The Clash were making records the definition of punk was up for grabs: to say that 'The Clash' is their only punk album is to mistake distorted guitars for the definition of the style, but there are a lot of bands from the last 30-35 years that have taken a far more rockabilly influenced approach to punk. It's just that with the success of hardcore it's easy for people to think that's the only punk bloodline. I also know a lot of punk and hardcore bands that are prone to outbreaks of reggae and dub, that's a long standing relationship in the UK.

Is Sandinista an album of punk rock songs? No, obviously not. It's an album of probing, creative experimentation, and given the band's background in the punk scene, one of the most courageous artistic statements of the late C.20. I'd sooner listen to someone trying to find a new path in music than someone retreading the sounds of the past: nostalgia peddling conservatism is definitely what punk is NOT, although a lot of people pursue just that agenda nowadays using punk rock sounds.

This is a 'Social Network', right?

kopper said:

I just think people are way too worried if something is "punk" or not. Who fuckin' cares? Life's too short to worry about stupid shit like that. Just enjoy the music for what it is.

werd!

kopper said:

I just think people are way too worried if something is "punk" or not. Who fuckin' cares? Life's too short to worry about stupid shit like that. Just enjoy the music for what it is.

Touché kopper!

I just think people are way too worried if something is "punk" or not. Who fuckin' cares? Life's too short to worry about stupid shit like that. Just enjoy the music for what it is.

I never really cared much for the Clash, but their first record fits fine next to any other classic 'punk' LP of that era (though not next to my records). The rest of their career was a fine adventure in song writing and recording, but they were more 'punk' in their attitude of not being boxed into the genre than what we often classify as 'punk' music. They sure grew out of their bondage pants, and I'll give 'em credit for that!

Here is an explanation of the word 'punk' -
"worthless person" (especially a young hoodlum), 1917, probably from punk kid "criminal's apprentice," underworld slang first attested 1904 (with overtones of "catamite"). Ultimately from punk "prostitute, harlot, strumpet," first recorded 1596, of unknown origin. For sense shift from "harlot" to "homosexual," cf. gay. By 1923 used generally for "young boy, inexperienced person" (originally in show business, e.g. punk day, circus slang from 1930, "day when children are admitted free"). The verb meaning "to back out of" is from 1920. The "young criminal" sense is no doubt the inspiration in punk rock first attested 1971 (in a Dave Marsh article in "Creem"), popularized 1976.

"Garage" isn't about being a "garage band," it's related to the roots of the music you play, i.e., '60s garage. Yes, originally the term was applied to the explosion of bands in the US and elsewhere in '65-'67 who mostly played in their garages. That's how the term originated, but it has become more than that and is now a specific style of rock'n'roll (indeed, a more pure form of rock'n'roll than you will hear anywhere). So yes, mainstream bands can play garage rock or garage punk. They're styles of music, not descriptions of where bands practice.

John Paul Jackson said:

Great point.  the media has to make "labels" like "garage"so they can write their stories.  So labels are just made up, they dont exist.  but maybe its ok to say "Oh this is a garage rock band." so you can describe it to your friend or whatever.  I love talkin bout this sh***t lol 

Old School Hero said:

Good Point. And now to open up a whole new can of worms...This also makes me wonder...are you still a Garage Band if you enter the mainstream?

Mike Humsgreen said:

What do you think of the whole 'sell out' thing, when a band gets too big for DIY to still be possible? For me Clash, the Ramones, Sex Pistols were all punk but at some point whatever 'punk' was has gotten badly lost that you can now (for years) buy Tshirts with these bands on at Top Man.

i loikes the clash. i love their atrocious triple-album sandanista! i loved the 101ers(i first scored some naughty in the elgin back in my youthful shenanigans days). i view things from this side of the atlantic. maybe punk rock is a musical genre that just haphazardly evolved from rock'nroll antecedents, without any sort of ideological agenda, or fuzzy liberal humanitarianism, or anti-establishment behind it? maybe it is about fuzzed-out guitars, and frat-boy jack-ass attitudes by people who go on to work on wall street? but it's a pity!

John Paul Jackson said:

Great point.  the media has to make "labels" like "garage"so they can write their stories.  So labels are just made up, they dont exist.  but maybe its ok to say "Oh this is a garage rock band." so you can describe it to your friend or whatever.  I love talkin bout this sh***t lol 

Old School Hero said:

Good Point. And now to open up a whole new can of worms...This also makes me wonder...are you still a Garage Band if you enter the mainstream?

Mike Humsgreen said:

What do you think of the whole 'sell out' thing, when a band gets too big for DIY to still be possible? For me Clash, the Ramones, Sex Pistols were all punk but at some point whatever 'punk' was has gotten badly lost that you can now (for years) buy Tshirts with these bands on at Top Man.

 

i agree with JPJackson when he discusses labels and people's need for labels.  it's a load of rubbish.  it either resonates with you or it doesn't .  a lot of the labeling crap reminds me a lot of intellectual snobbery and i don't have time for that. 

i agree to disagree and that's what makes discussions fun and/or interesting.  i believe Punk is an attitude.  When it comes to a lot of bands most folks associate with "Punk", I think of Malcolm McClaren.  Malcolm McClaren managed, marketed & promoted bands based on a variety of experiences he had; most of those having happened when he was stateside, managing the New York Dolls.  CBGB's hosted a wide variety of acts and much of their lifestyle and independent attitude is what Macolm incorporated while marketing his bands when he went back to England.  Many bands; for example the Stranglers, the Damned, etc...were also associated with the Punk movement for the exact same reasons.  In his day, Johnny Cash was as punk as they come, all due to his attitude.

Can a man who appears in adverts for butter or car insurance be considered punk? Or a person who appears on reality TV to further their celebrity career?

Beatrice said:

Punk is an attitude, not a clothing style and certainly not the way you scream or hate into a microphone.  Johnny Cash was punk, Gene Vincent was punk, Iggy, Mc5, R.A.M.O.N.E.S., etc...

What made the Clash rise above the tribe and make them even more "punk" than others is the fact that they did what flowed for them.  Many times Joe Strummer would wait (well after a show was over), to be sure certain fans had a lift home and many times he'd even give them a ride.  He didn't care that many bands just wanted to tell their fans to eff off and go off and rage, he did what he wanted to do.  He honored his values and didn't care how he appeared to others.  That's PUNK!

Johnny Cash was Country. Gene Vincent was Rockabilly. I do think Punk is a genre of music... I just think The Clash transcended genre. And 'honouring your values' didn't make Joe Strummer a punk... It just made him a decent person. Although he wasn't always a decent person, he fell victim to his ego many a time by his own admission.

Beatrice said:

Punk is an attitude, not a clothing style and certainly not the way you scream or hate into a microphone.  Johnny Cash was punk, Gene Vincent was punk, Iggy, Mc5, R.A.M.O.N.E.S., etc...

What made the Clash rise above the tribe and make them even more "punk" than others is the fact that they did what flowed for them.  Many times Joe Strummer would wait (well after a show was over), to be sure certain fans had a lift home and many times he'd even give them a ride.  He didn't care that many bands just wanted to tell their fans to eff off and go off and rage, he did what he wanted to do.  He honored his values and didn't care how he appeared to others.  That's PUNK!

Punk is an attitude, not a clothing style and certainly not the way you scream or hate into a microphone.  Johnny Cash was punk, Gene Vincent was punk, Iggy, Mc5, R.A.M.O.N.E.S., etc...

What made the Clash rise above the tribe and make them even more "punk" than others is the fact that they did what flowed for them.  Many times Joe Strummer would wait (well after a show was over), to be sure certain fans had a lift home and many times he'd even give them a ride.  He didn't care that many bands just wanted to tell their fans to eff off and go off and rage, he did what he wanted to do.  He honored his values and didn't care how he appeared to others.  That's PUNK!

Great point.  the media has to make "labels" like "garage"so they can write their stories.  So labels are just made up, they dont exist.  but maybe its ok to say "Oh this is a garage rock band." so you can describe it to your friend or whatever.  I love talkin bout this sh***t lol 

Old School Hero said:

Good Point. And now to open up a whole new can of worms...This also makes me wonder...are you still a Garage Band if you enter the mainstream?

Mike Humsgreen said:

What do you think of the whole 'sell out' thing, when a band gets too big for DIY to still be possible? For me Clash, the Ramones, Sex Pistols were all punk but at some point whatever 'punk' was has gotten badly lost that you can now (for years) buy Tshirts with these bands on at Top Man.

Oh wow sorry for the late reply but good question. I think as long as you own what you do it is still diy. You can be big and still own everything. Worldwide with the internet you can create a fanbase, share your music free peer to peer and stuff. Book a tour using email. If you need legal issues, get your own lawyer or whatever. I think you can be successful and still diy.

Mike Humsgreen said:

What do you think of the whole 'sell out' thing, when a band gets too big for DIY to still be possible? For me Clash, the Ramones, Sex Pistols were all punk but at some point whatever 'punk' was has gotten badly lost that you can now (for years) buy Tshirts with these bands on at Top Man.

John Paul Jackson said:

I think of punk more as a DIY attitude, not a musical style.  And there's nothing wrong with ELO and Queen!

there's the gist of the question! how do you define punk rock? somebody please enlighten me, i've only just discovered what garage means? i play ping-pong in mine.

I think it's safe to say we all agree they're Punk..some of us just question if the music is pure Punk musically.

clash is punk, I know that probably doesn't bring much to the conversation, haha

punk? ok we can't agree on definition. anti-establishment; d-i-y; anger; energy; youth. in my opinion you couldn't get more punk rock than lightning hopkins, hasil adkins, link wray or big youth! it's not limited to skinny white boys with loud guitars you know! (i think it was patti smith who said that?) i have this conversation almost daily with my drummer who is franco-african, and to the mainland europeans, punk means a whole different can of worms(thrash/metal/hardcore,etc.) television, for example are not considered punk-rock, whilst to me they are the quintessence of the punk spirit....., it's complicated, but better than worrying about that radio-active leak in japan! now gentlemen(and ladies) please stop having such titillating confabulations. it's way past my bed-time!

1st album is punk and its the only one i like.  live at that time they were even more punk, i think the shitty production of the first album neutered some great punk songs.

It all depends. I think you can still consider yourself a Garage Band once you've gone mainstream but if you achieved that success by watering down your music, then you've probably lost all credibility with the underground crowd. But then, does any band want to stay underground forever anyway? Playing to 30 people in a dingy bar in the ass end of any shitty town that can afford you? If you want pussy and cash then mainstream is where it's at.

I can't really think of any Garage Bands that have achieved mainstream success. Not any good ones, anyway.

They used The Shag's Stop And Listen (from the 60's) for Puma ads. Now the song is all cool and whatnot...I posted the song on my youtube channel and it's my highest viewed video by far.

Andyuzz said:

Old School Hero -"Good Point. And now to open up a whole new can of worms...This also makes me wonder...are you still a Garage Band if you enter the mainstream?"

Mmmm - would I have actually liked Jerk It Out by The Caesars if it were not used for an ipod ad?