Ever spend over an hour sound checking in some club and the sound guy's having your drummer hit his snare for half an hour and then it's finally showtime and you still can't understand what the fuck you're hearing on stage?
What do you think? Do sound checks enhance your amazing performances or do you think it's just choking and stroking?

If the sound engineer can't sort out the drum sounds in under ten minutes then they can fuck right off.

I've worked as a live sound engineer and drum sounds aren't that hard. The only time they are hard to sort out is when the kit isn't tuned and that's the drummers problem not the engineers. you just can't EQ out shit.

The problem with most engineers is that they try to play the part of the producer as well as doing the sound engineering. Big fucking mistake! The sound system in any venue is only there to reinforce what is happening on the stage. The other problem with engineers I run into is that they are generic clones from some fucking audio engineering school that taught them how to work with super-groups in the studio but not how to deal with real bands in a real live sound situation with average equipment.

And of there is the last part of the equation which is the band. If you play on the stage like you do in the garage at practice (so everyone can hear each other) there really shouldn't be a problem a sound check.

I used to be afraid to say anything...not wanting to piss of the sound person or sound whiny during a set...now I just ask for what needs to be done, cuz it's more fun to perform that way. Turn down guitars in monitor, turn up vocals...etc...As long as your cool to the engineer they are usually cool to you.

*every once and a while though I've got the pissed off jerk who is filling in for someone or hung-over and doesn't want to be there...I just think...FUCK OFF man you get to sit around and listen to live music for a living.

what I hate is being told to turn up at 5.30 or whatever, so you turn up at 7.00 and nobodys there and not even a mike stand is set up. we just jump on and do half a song and we are good to go but there is only 2 of us so...in new zealand the sound guy would probly be a good mate of mine or somone I already know.
but yeah, I do hate sitting there banging a snare/kick/tom for half an hour

"There is a Fine Line between Clever and Stupid"
-Nigel Tufnel- (AKA Chris Guest)
Amen to that!

Yes, many newbie sound engineers/PA folks all seem to be cut from the same cloth, BUT a good one (and I know many) are worth their weight in gold. Being as I started my studio engineer carreer apprenticing (yes apprenticing!) under one of Seattle's premier live sound engineers (Jim Anderson who worked at the Central Tavern, then Crocodile Cafe and now temporarily Slim's!) He took me under his wing and taught be the ropes (so I wouldn't be one of those "dunno what is goin' on" types) He coulda just let me "sink or swim" and told me how stupid I was for not knowing Live Audio, but he didn't. I actually showed the want to learn (and I sure learned a lot too!) He taught me to set the mics and 'Dial In a Mix" then "Listen to the room" and figure out what works from the stage sound and Re-enforce it as opposed to just Amplify it. He also told me how to be polite to the bands and work with them at whatever level they are at and not be condescending to them (even if some are just stupid and didn't wanna listen!) He got the thought into my head that there are many styles and ways to doing any job and I learned though making mistakes (ones that no-one but me and Jim knew) and never screwing a band over on a mix on purpose. I learned to move quickly and fix things that needed to be fixed (on stage and behind the board) without the audience (and sometimes the band) knowing. I never got paid (until later) but I did have his respect. When I finally got to College and started to learn that "Art and Science of Recording" I already had some Reality under my belt and knew a few tricks that even my Profs didn't know and knew how to show them what I knew. I owe a bit of my survival as both a Musician and an Engineer to this.

Yes, there are a lot of wanna-be/neophyte/"I know more than you" types out there (but that is true in Music and especially Garage Music), we all know who they are (as I look in the mirror), so let's not be the one who "casts the first stone" because at some point they may just get thrown back (and a lot harder too) as us. It hurts!

I have had my Bad and Good experience on both sides of the Board and Stage. I know what it is like to Give and to Recieve the stuff we are talking about here. It is never easy so, let's keep the coments contructive and let those who might read them, learn without getting burned (to badly). Believe me when I tell you EVERYONE knows when you screw up, but no one likes to be Trashed for it. I think we all know the sting of that lash.

Meanwhile, I am off to an early morning soundcheck for my solo gig at the University Streetfair, let's hope I follow some of my own advice and not be too much of a hypocrite (hee-hee!)!
Keepa Rockin'!

Sound guys (or gals) are funny, they make me laugh every time. With every new pa guy comes new laughs. It could be that they just look funny or it could be the way they carry a mini light around there neck or a pen behind there ear like they about to design some massive fleet liner or something but mainly it's the things they say...my favourite so far is a sound guy who wanted to start soundcheking the owner of the "Fender amp" to which we replied, "Which one? All THREE of 'em are Fenders!!!"

the horrible thing about sound checks is having all that time before you play to get trashed in......that fine balance between being fun and being an onstage drunken jackass can be rather fine, haha

I have, like probably many in here, a hell of a lot of bad experiences with sound guys and sound checks. For me, a sound check CAN be useful, but 90% of the time it's a major waste of time. I'm more concerned about the order of appearance, where's are shit! and when do we get on. You can have a pretty good impression of the kind of sound guy you are gonna deal with just by looking at his t-shirt. If it's a RUSH t-shirt... you're in for trouble. We used to have all kindsa remarks on our equipement being shitty and mot tuned and shit... but none of this matters as it's the performance that's important... not the sound man's job, for me at least.

I've known a couple great sound guys in my town and would sigh of relief when I got to the club and saw them. I thought to myself "great! easy night!"... as when I didn't know the guy and he was clearly into reggae... I knew we'd have troubles. I'm always asked to keep the amps on stage low so that he could have "room" to play with them on his console... but come show time... I jack my amp right back up. Then, you're in control, he can't do anything else but cut the mics.

Lastly, I always sacrifice our first song. I pick one that's ok, but not killer. Usually it goes to shit because of the sound man. Then jack up your amps and start playing for real. It's fucking funny to see the guy jump on his console, head down, trying to rectify what's going "wrong".

I just did a gig where the soundman could not leave the PA alone once he got me up and running. The PA kep squeeking and ringing throughout my performance (and the following band) He came up to me expecting praise at the end of the show and I was Honest (but polite) when I said, "It was a bit bright and that distracted me from my performance and the performance of the band following me that I wanted to watch" (translation: Stop Fucking with the Gawdamn PA and unless there is a problem quite bugging folks on stage while they are playing!) I soldiered through my solo set, but I never quite got into my stride. It wasn't the worst set I have done and the guy was nice enough so I didn't say what I was thinking to him. I hoped my honest coments of "if it ain't broke don't fix it in the mix" meant something to him. Probably not, but at least I tried to be constructive.

the next night thing were better with my band. I am so used to balancing my band's stage volume I almost never need to put them through the PA. I just had vocals that night. It went well and my ears aren't ringing too hard today (LOL). I hope this helps you all out in your quest for good stage sound.

I'd say the performance comes from the bands mood and the vibe they get from the crowd.If the crowds up for it, the band usually are.So i believe sound checks have a purpose in that hopefully the sound guy can give you a decent sound out front,for the crowd to get off on.
Lets be honest how many times have we been able to hear our own instrument(apart from the drums) at a gig.I ain't heard my guitar for 20 years.
Time for tiffin!

Knob twiddlers! Some do a good job but most sound persons suck. They ussually waste your time and money. When you take the time to individually check all amps, drums and mikes and it still sounds like ass. You will always concede and " yeah buddy sounds great." so you can start your show.

Sometimes is just a waste of time, specially with monitors on stage. I remember the first time I played with Los Straitjackets and saw their stage-plot. At the end of a very short directions you could read: AND NO MONITORS, PLEASE. Yes. They are great, pro musicians and they know. You spend an hour or even more time onstage so the monitors guy can justify his "work". I recommend having a "sound man" you can trust and yes...FORGET ABOUT MONITORS: even if you did soundcheck by the time you got on stage they never sound the same. And come on, we're not Kiss nor Pink Floyd. We have bands travelin' around playing in small clubs so...use that "soundcheck hour" to sleep, eat or meeting a good looking señorita!!!!!.

The answer is a decent Backline of multi-purpose guitar amps, drums (and/or keys). I try to make deals with some of the bands I play with to either use their gear or they use mine thus keeping the band changeover between bands and soundchecking at the begining to a minimum.

Also good Stage Management by the club helps out too. Each band has a place to put their gear and folks to help them get things on/off the stage quickly and safely.

These days, I bring just my acoustic guitar, a pre-amp/DI box and an echo pedal for my guitar (I don't even use an amp much anymore) and make sure I have everything I need to play either solo or with a band in 2 cases (guitar and breifcase with pedals, harps cables and whatnot) I keep them with me at all times and never let them out of my sight when I am at the club.

I had one really crappy experience on the road which I will re-post from my MySpace Blog here. It goes like this:
"It was the Soundman who made the blunder. He showed up late when I was early, gave me no direction as to where I was supposed to put my things, then when I finally figured out who he was and where I was supposed to do, it was already past my start time and the soundman then turned off the PA on me in mid-song and said "Thank You Howlin' Houndog!" Without the intervention of another local band I would have had to just moved my crap off stage quickly. I did get paid for that show, BUT I have never been treated so shabbily (nor would I treat another performer like that) It rattled me for days afterwards. I really didn't give a shit about getting paid I just wanted to pack my shit and leave. If it weren't for the two other bands involved who where way cool, I mighta just said "Fuck You" to the soundman (or if this were earlier in my career I mighta slugged him for being such a dickhead) Now to be fair he did appologize (sheepishly) later. I think I was still was the better person for letting it slide while I was playing and being pretty understanding in the end."

It depends on two things;

Firstly: Has your band got its shit together? I almost always (if I can) step off the stage and listen to what my band sounds like from the floor. I balance the stage sound so the band on stage can hear what we do musically and have good sight-lines (in case we can't) and the audience gets a decent balanced mix. I tell the sound opperator not to make things too loud but to re-enforce what we are doing already on stage (too loud a sound doesn't get folks to move up close when you start playing!) and to make sure that we can both hear the vocals on stage and they are not blasting the audience either. I hate it when I get dizzy from the volume when I am on stage.

This brings up my second point;

Is the sound opperator worth a shit? Most are and if you treat 'em with respect they can make your band sound even better, but if you treat 'em like crap then you can bet your sound will suck. It also depends on the room. If you are too loud and the sound opperator says turn it down and you tell him "But that is our sound, so Fuck You!" then you can bet you won't sound good.

It is all a fine balance that if done correctly everyone is happy. If done wrong (on both sides) can end up in a situation where no one is satisfied.

One of the reasons I DON"T do Live sound anymore, is it is a thankless tiring, never ending job where the successes are as fleeting as the failures. I learned a lot of tricks I took into the studio though (where people are more appreciative) Still I always introduce myself to the sound opperator when I get to a club and chat with them for a while. More often than not they appreciate the fact that I respect them and will try to give me what I want and vice versa.