It's been brought to my attention that , while we've had some interesting ongoing discussions about The Stones , The Who seldom if ever comes up here...

If anyone wants to talk about The Who's (vast) influence on what we now call Garage Punk, OR , JUST ON YOU , PERSONALLY, the floor is open. Sure, I was a wee small lad when they actually broke, but it's important (though painfully obvious) to note that the early Who , like The Pretty Things or The Small Faces , were largely an underground group in the states that a select number of Garage bands drew inspiration from , before the king - size hit , "I Can See For Miles" and the conquest of Monterrey Pop in '67..... 

Two things you're free to take with a grain of salt : Kenny Jones. He killed. Live , at least. He did'nt try to emulate Moon . Yet , he has a bad rap for NOT trying. Only Zak Starkey has pulled that particular stunt off....

And "Call Me Lightning" ,  one of their best R'N'R songs. I've only heard three bands cover it : The (Later ) Flamin' Groovies , Los Johnny Jets (As "Dam Dam" ) and Joan Jett and The Blackhearts. Anyone heard any other versions?

There is new music left in 'em , but , it's up to Townsend to cough up the songs. Their last album really was'nt bad , though it took forever to put together , and go quickly forgotten. It was'nt a masterpiece , but , it still beat Hell out of "It's Hard' and "Face Dances".

On the latter LP , which I bought for a quarter (Poster included) several years ago , I still like "Did you Steal My Money", and Entwistle's two songs "You" and "The Quiet One". Not saying they're "It's Not True" or "Call Me Lightning" or anything. I'm just glad I got to see The Who when they were'nt really promoting anything. Of course , my Brother still buried it in my face that he saw them in 1976......My Landlord casually blabbed that he saw them in 1974 , at the Arie Crown Theatre , which holds MAYBE 1500 people (!!!!!) . It's also the site of the first Stones concert in Chicago. I've seen King Dolemite , King James Brown , Queen Lawanda Page , and Heir To The Party Record Throne , WI - I - I- I- I-I - ILDMAN STEVE , there , myself.
 
melissa scott said:

Oh, clearly those of us who hang out here are NOT the audience for the majority of those performers. Dino-rock night. Wonder if they had to order the BenGay by the caseload...
Wait, where was I? Oh, the 'OO... it doesn't sit well with me that I only like the early music... I'm still trying to stay loyal, but it's not easy. They really sounded so good last week that I keep thinking, ok, now... AND?... is there new music left in those guys?

John Battles said:

I did'nt need to see Roger's chest , either , but it was'nt Johnny Rotten - awful !!

But......Compared to seeing Springsteen , Roger Waters , Bon Jovi , Billy Joel and Kanye West , seeing Daltrey's gut was'nt SO horriffic. Then again , it was'nt about our entertainment. I'd gladly play on a NY/NJ benefit , but I usually don't get asked to perform for GOOD causes , and , with the apparent gridlock on localized disaster relief (Have you seen Red Cross donation cans at any of your local businesses? Me either , nor for Japan , Haiti or New Orleans.), it does'nt look like this wee small burg , Chicago , will be doing any Hurricane Sandy relief benefits. Hey , I hope I'm wrong.
melissa scott said:

Yeah, I'm sorry to say, YEAH, couldn't give a damn about anything later either. And I so want to. All that talent in his hands and Townsend just wastes it.

As for Daltry, he really should rethink trying to hit those high notes now. Oh, wow, worst part of last week's performance. Besides him opening his shirt front. *sigh*

Mel

James Porter said:

1965-68 = essential Who

1969-78 = still good, just not great

1981 onward = terrible

Oh, clearly those of us who hang out here are NOT the audience for the majority of those performers. Dino-rock night. Wonder if they had to order the BenGay by the caseload...
Wait, where was I? Oh, the 'OO... it doesn't sit well with me that I only like the early music... I'm still trying to stay loyal, but it's not easy. They really sounded so good last week that I keep thinking, ok, now... AND?... is there new music left in those guys?

John Battles said:

I did'nt need to see Roger's chest , either , but it was'nt Johnny Rotten - awful !!

But......Compared to seeing Springsteen , Roger Waters , Bon Jovi , Billy Joel and Kanye West , seeing Daltrey's gut was'nt SO horriffic. Then again , it was'nt about our entertainment. I'd gladly play on a NY/NJ benefit , but I usually don't get asked to perform for GOOD causes , and , with the apparent gridlock on localized disaster relief (Have you seen Red Cross donation cans at any of your local businesses? Me either , nor for Japan , Haiti or New Orleans.), it does'nt look like this wee small burg , Chicago , will be doing any Hurricane Sandy relief benefits. Hey , I hope I'm wrong.
melissa scott said:

Yeah, I'm sorry to say, YEAH, couldn't give a damn about anything later either. And I so want to. All that talent in his hands and Townsend just wastes it.

As for Daltry, he really should rethink trying to hit those high notes now. Oh, wow, worst part of last week's performance. Besides him opening his shirt front. *sigh*

Mel

James Porter said:

1965-68 = essential Who

1969-78 = still good, just not great

1981 onward = terrible

You Better, You Bet was Ok I guess.  But Athena from the next album was pretty bad.  You're right, why bring it up.
 
John Battles said:

God , I know.....If "Face Dances " had been ABOUT as good as "Empty Glass"
, people might have taken it more seriously....Is it a coincidence that the hits on both albums sound alike, tho'? A lot of Pete's songs were works in progress , some of which he'd have The Who perform before they sounded fully realized. People who saw that show in 1980 , the one that I was lucky enough to see , agreed that Jones sounded much better live than on "Face Dances"...."It's Hard" , why even bring it up? I did'nt even try to get a ticket on that tour. Of course , holding the show outdoors in December , with Billy Squier as support , why would I have?   But , The Who were'nt the only major band having a mid-life crisis at the time........
Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

Nobody will ever be Keith Moon but I never truly thought it was fair to blame Kenny Jones for the band the way they ended up.  He's competent.  The whole thing is like Pete Best in reverse.  But howabout blaming Pete Townshend for keeping all the good songs for himself on Empty Glass and All the Best Cowboys have Chinese Eyes and giving the band crap.  Not a fan of those songs but I'm not gonna deny they have quality.  Even Emminence Front was a solo song that he put on a Who album.  But Jones' drumming wasn't bad.  It was just different.

I did'nt need to see Roger's chest , either , but it was'nt Johnny Rotten - awful !!

But......Compared to seeing Springsteen , Roger Waters , Bon Jovi , Billy Joel and Kanye West , seeing Daltrey's gut was'nt SO horriffic. Then again , it was'nt about our entertainment. I'd gladly play on a NY/NJ benefit , but I usually don't get asked to perform for GOOD causes , and , with the apparent gridlock on localized disaster relief (Have you seen Red Cross donation cans at any of your local businesses? Me either , nor for Japan , Haiti or New Orleans.), it does'nt look like this wee small burg , Chicago , will be doing any Hurricane Sandy relief benefits. Hey , I hope I'm wrong.
melissa scott said:

Yeah, I'm sorry to say, YEAH, couldn't give a damn about anything later either. And I so want to. All that talent in his hands and Townsend just wastes it.

As for Daltry, he really should rethink trying to hit those high notes now. Oh, wow, worst part of last week's performance. Besides him opening his shirt front. *sigh*

Mel

James Porter said:

1965-68 = essential Who

1969-78 = still good, just not great

1981 onward = terrible

God , I know.....If "Face Dances " had been ABOUT as good as "Empty Glass"
, people might have taken it more seriously....Is it a coincidence that the hits on both albums sound alike, tho'? A lot of Pete's songs were works in progress , some of which he'd have The Who perform before they sounded fully realized. People who saw that show in 1980 , the one that I was lucky enough to see , agreed that Jones sounded much better live than on "Face Dances"...."It's Hard" , why even bring it up? I did'nt even try to get a ticket on that tour. Of course , holding the show outdoors in December , with Billy Squier as support , why would I have?   But , The Who were'nt the only major band having a mid-life crisis at the time........
Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

Nobody will ever be Keith Moon but I never truly thought it was fair to blame Kenny Jones for the band the way they ended up.  He's competent.  The whole thing is like Pete Best in reverse.  But howabout blaming Pete Townshend for keeping all the good songs for himself on Empty Glass and All the Best Cowboys have Chinese Eyes and giving the band crap.  Not a fan of those songs but I'm not gonna deny they have quality.  Even Emminence Front was a solo song that he put on a Who album.  But Jones' drumming wasn't bad.  It was just different.

The Who invented punk rock. Period.

What happened after that (until Keith has been his regular amazing self as a drummer, that means until Live at Leeds, where they invented hard rock), it's just history.

But the renditon of A Quick One on the Rock'n'Roll Circus is the greates live performance ever done by a band. And will never be outlasted.

Yeah, I'm sorry to say, YEAH, couldn't give a damn about anything later either. And I so want to. All that talent in his hands and Townsend just wastes it.

As for Daltry, he really should rethink trying to hit those high notes now. Oh, wow, worst part of last week's performance. Besides him opening his shirt front. *sigh*

Mel

James Porter said:

1965-68 = essential Who

1969-78 = still good, just not great

1981 onward = terrible

Nobody will ever be Keith Moon but I never truly thought it was fair to blame Kenny Jones for the band the way they ended up.  He's competent.  The whole thing is like Pete Best in reverse.  But howabout blaming Pete Townshend for keeping all the good songs for himself on Empty Glass and All the Best Cowboys have Chinese Eyes and giving the band crap.  Not a fan of those songs but I'm not gonna deny they have quality.  Even Emminence Front was a solo song that he put on a Who album.  But Jones' drumming wasn't bad.  It was just different.

I only ever saw The Who once , in 1980. I still maintain that Jones held his own. I'm not saying he made anyone forget Moon. But , he did his famous embellishments (LikE on "dON'T gET FOOLED aGAIN" ) CONVINCINGLY , WITHOUT PARROTING HIS STYLE. Maybe he was under the gun , as it had'nt been very long since Keith Moon's death , nor the deaths of those kids in Cincinatti. Believe me , too , there WAS violence down on the main floor , because some douchebags thought what happened in Cincinatti was cool. Some people evencarried signs saying "Let's have another Cincinatti". One genius thought it would be cool to brandish a knife .......It was still a tense time , which , in a fucked - up way , may have added to Kenny Jones' aggression.

Dat's it, in a nutshell!

James Porter said:

1965-68 = essential Who

1969-78 = still good, just not great

1981 onward = terrible

Saw The Who on 1971 tour with Wishbone Ash.  They were killer, played over 3 hours.  But, after Moon was gone, for me so was the excitement of seeing The Who live or listening to them on LP.  Entwistle was still solid as hell on bass, but Kenny Jones just couldn't pull his weight on drums.  Townshend's guitar and Daltrey's vocals remained constant but it was Moon and Entwistle that drove the band and without Keith they were running a little bit short on energy.

1965-68 = essential Who

1969-78 = still good, just not great

1981 onward = terrible

I stilll enjoyed their set , last week on TV. Most people agree it was Best of Show. Them , and McCartney. But , I AGREE , WHOEVER THE BASSIST IS , HE'S NOT VERY DISTINCTIVE. Not bad , but , no one's going to just walk into Entwistle's shoes like that. At least Daryl Jones adds something to The Stones' sound , today.  He has'nt REPLACED Bill Wyman , but he's a well above average sideman. They do still sound fresh. Unlike The Beatles , The Who , and even The Stones , have a shitload of great songs most people have never heard.

Love the Who, saw them with Moon & they were the best live act of the 70's era. Saw them with Jones & Zak & still enjoyed them, but being a bass player I found them dull & pedestrian without Entwhistle last week on TV. I listen to them all the time still & they still sound fresh.

Exactly. i don't know if it's that Townsend is embarrassed by anything he did that displayed some humor , or if , well , he knows what side his bread is buttered on.....I mean , I saw The Who , once , in 1980. They were'nt really promoting anything (The "Quadrophenia" film was current , but , it was'nt like they were doing THE WHOLE DAMN ALBUM , like they are , now , and have done so for decades. Not exclusively , but , I'd say more than enough.) , so it was basically a "Best of " show , better known stuff From "Can't Explain" to "Who Are You'', but , any live sets I've seen listed , or heard , since then , seldom strayed from that set list. Now , The Stones have been the same for years , in that their "Fans" only want to hear the same 20 songs , but , in 2003 , and even earlier , they started doing as many smaller venues as possible , throwing in a lot of obscure (To "The fans" , not necessarily to us.) tunes of their own , as well as a lot of Soul and Blues covers , and even the Jagger/Tosh duet , "(Walk and ) Don't Look Back" , plus throwing in more songs from "Let it Bleed" and "Sticky Fingers" in their stadium shows.

I heard a crude recording of the recent London show , and , yep , Jagger made a crack about doing the whole of "Satanic Majesties" , like that would be a BAD thing. To the "Fans" , yes. Since they're promoting yet another "Greatest Hits " package , barring "I Wanna Be Your Man" , there were'nt too many off the wall selections . When I saw that Jeff Beck (Once a Yardbird , almost a Stone. Sent home with "Does'nt play well with others" on his report card.) was playing on "I'm Going Down '', I wondered if it was the little known song that appeared on "Metamorphosis" or the Blues/Rock standard. Of course , it was the latter , but Beck KILLED it . IT MIGHT TAKE A WHILE , BEFORE THEY START THROWING IN SOME RINGERS WHEN THE TOUR GOES STATESIDE.......And , for those out there who have two grand to hear the same 20 songs, if that's how it's going to go down , they should'nt be disappointed. To think , I thought $18 was highway robbery to see The Stones in '81. In the 90's , they did keep their ticket prices down , compared to your Eagles and your Pink Floyds , but , I was'nt as interested in seeing them (I would have, for FREE!) until I actually saw Chuck Berry give a great show , after purposely avoiding him for years , and figured I should give The Stones another chance. Plus , they finally put out a solid album.

The Stones set list I saw for a fundraiser in Brooklyn showed only the two new songs as anything from the last 30 years.  Everything else (even if it wasn't that oddball except for I Wanna Be Your Man) was from Start Me Up and before but mostly concentrating on the Jimmy Miller years plus major hits from 1965-1967.  I laughed at an interview that promised the Her Satanic Majesty's Request album in its entirety but that goes to show that really do think about their past more than the Who really do.  It seems like Townshend only wants to talk about works he saw as triumphs after a lot of adversity.  He won't joke about Dogs.
 
John Battles said:

You're probably right. I just don't think The Who presented themselves with too many challenges these past 30 years , as far as throwing oddball songs into their set , the way The Stones have.

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

I think it may have been part of their set in the UK for a short while but probably wasn't here.

John Battles said:

Think you've got something there with that medley idea , Rockin' Rod. "Call Me Lightning" ALWAYS GOT SWEPT UNDER THE RUG , even tho' it was a lesser US hit. I doubt it was ever in their live set , but , WHO NOSE , I MEAN , KNOWS?

You're probably right. I just don't think The Who presented themselves with too many challenges these past 30 years , as far as throwing oddball songs into their set , the way The Stones have.

Rockin Rod Strychnine said:

I think it may have been part of their set in the UK for a short while but probably wasn't here.

John Battles said:

Think you've got something there with that medley idea , Rockin' Rod. "Call Me Lightning" ALWAYS GOT SWEPT UNDER THE RUG , even tho' it was a lesser US hit. I doubt it was ever in their live set , but , WHO NOSE , I MEAN , KNOWS?

.....And that's saying nothing about "Had Enough" on "Who Are You".

John Battles said:

You're welcome , Dave. "Violence Girl" it's called . There was a thread that Lee Joseph put together , I believe , some time back , about the release party for teh book in LA.

 I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY WELL WRITTEN , BUT AS A FLY ON THE WALL , FOLLOWING THE PROTAGONIST'S DAY TO DAY LIFE , WHICH IS SOMETIMES A REAL KICK , AND SOMETIMES LIKE ....WELL , OUR REAL LIVES. HA HA HA. NO , WE ALL HAVE GOODSTORIES. Each paragraph is short , then you jump ahead a day , a month , years. Alice , much to her credit , lays it on the line about relationships , bandmates , an abusive Father , and , well , just being a Punk , and Latina , in LA at the time.  In no way does she convey that she feels sorry for herself.......I especially like "Sell Out" , "A Quick One'' and "My Generation". BUT , THEY HAD GOOD SONGS SPREAD OUT , EVEN INTO THEIR DECLINE. IT'S SOMEWHAT IRONIC THAT THE TWO BEST AND MOST WHO - LIKE SONGS ON "FACE DANCES" WERE WRITTEN BY ENTWISTLE.

You're welcome , Dave. "Violence Girl" it's called . There was a thread that Lee Joseph put together , I believe , some time back , about the release party for teh book in LA.

 I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY WELL WRITTEN , BUT AS A FLY ON THE WALL , FOLLOWING THE PROTAGONIST'S DAY TO DAY LIFE , WHICH IS SOMETIMES A REAL KICK , AND SOMETIMES LIKE ....WELL , OUR REAL LIVES. HA HA HA. NO , WE ALL HAVE GOODSTORIES. Each paragraph is short , then you jump ahead a day , a month , years. Alice , much to her credit , lays it on the line about relationships , bandmates , an abusive Father , and , well , just being a Punk , and Latina , in LA at the time.  In no way does she convey that she feels sorry for herself.......I especially like "Sell Out" , "A Quick One'' and "My Generation". BUT , THEY HAD GOOD SONGS SPREAD OUT , EVEN INTO THEIR DECLINE. IT'S SOMEWHAT IRONIC THAT THE TWO BEST AND MOST WHO - LIKE SONGS ON "FACE DANCES" WERE WRITTEN BY ENTWISTLE.

Thanks for that Alice Bag tip, didn't even know it existed!

As for Who material, the concept stuff is genius, but only gets played by me about once a year. The gold for me is, well, the MeatyBeaty stuff basically, plus the R&B stuff and odd bits like Silas Stingy (love Baroque Pop). And of course Quadrophenia is too cool, but Tommy put me off even as a kid.

John Battles said:

No , I have'nt. Heard it was good. i read about 100 pages of Keef'S BOOK , LOST IT , THEN , ONLY RECENTLY FOUND ANOTHER COPY. I'm not good with 400 page books. Took months to get thru Alice Bag's book , and it's very good.            

I think it may have been part of their set in the UK for a short while but probably wasn't here.

John Battles said:

Think you've got something there with that medley idea , Rockin' Rod. "Call Me Lightning" ALWAYS GOT SWEPT UNDER THE RUG , even tho' it was a lesser US hit. I doubt it was ever in their live set , but , WHO NOSE , I MEAN , KNOWS?

Think you've got something there with that medley idea , Rockin' Rod. "Call Me Lightning" ALWAYS GOT SWEPT UNDER THE RUG , even tho' it was a lesser US hit. I doubt it was ever in their live set , but , WHO NOSE , I MEAN , KNOWS?

The Who (and the High Numbers), 1964-1968, is one of my favorites of all time.  Almost all of that early stuff is fantastic and there are alot of interesting gems on the b-sides even if they aren't KILLER.  Call Me Lightning is definetly a great song and fits in so well with My Generation, Run Run Run, and Magic Bus.  What a great medley that would make.

No , I have'nt. Heard it was good. i read about 100 pages of Keef'S BOOK , LOST IT , THEN , ONLY RECENTLY FOUND ANOTHER COPY. I'm not good with 400 page books. Took months to get thru Alice Bag's book , and it's very good.