That is the worst marketing ploy ever, a nasty corporate tactic to get into peoples timelines.

Elle Diabla said:

Do you know what is really fucked up? Some FB pages MAKE you hit like to hear the music. That is such an awful scam. So it's totally not accurate whether that many people like the band or not. I don't respect it when a band sets that feature.

Do you know what is really fucked up? Some FB pages MAKE you hit like to hear the music. That is such an awful scam. So it's totally not accurate whether that many people like the band or not. I don't respect it when a band sets that feature.

kopper said:

Agreed, Mardy. The whole "like" thing is completely overblown/overrated has gone out of control. It was because Michael Kaiser's RadiOblivion podcast wasn't getting enough "likes" here on the Hideout that he decided to stop doing it and ditch the site entirely (I believe he also deleted his Facebook account, for what it's worth). He specifically told me that he stopped doing his show because not enough people here "liked" it. Amazing.

That is to bad since you should always do something that you enjoy and not worry about what other people think.

I never look at bands sites. I love bandcamp and soundcloud though. I find them to be the best for checking out stuff.

Sorry kopper, realized my typo too late to edit.

Jersey City Mods said:

  But as Kooper suggests, a good website with music, photos, info, etc is what will eventually get us to shell out bucks for records and shows.

I'm a booking agent and I look at every bands FB. I don't decide to book them based on how many fans they have but the feature "how many people are talking about this band" does help me gauge general interest by others. If a band has 300+ people talking about them, then they're probably worth a decent guarantee.

If only 3 people are talking about a band, that's fine too. Lots of great bands are unknown. If they sound good, I'll still book them and give them a chance and pair them up with locals that have a decent fanbase. 

I prefer when a band sends me a band website and a soundcloud or bandcamp or reverbnation. The reason being, sometimes sites are difficult to navigate and the first thing I want to do is get that music playing and then read over their bio and all that stuff. 

As fans in search of new music, having a network of friends whose taste we trust often leads to FB recommendations that can be pretty on target.  When our FB friends "like" something, we'll give it a glance. It is useful in that sense.  But as Kooper suggests, a good website with music, photos, info, etc is what will eventually get us to shell out bucks for records and shows.

I'm confused by the entire 'Like' thing. Simply because a post, video, or whatever, has a number of 'Likes' has no real bearing on whether or not people have actually listened to it. Simply clicking the box has always seemed a dismissive activity. Certainly I am just as guilty, but giving up on something you enjoy doing because it doesn't get checks seems really defeatist. 

Like most other makers or shakers, the effort that goes into making a show, thinking about a show, getting the right tracks (or even when I was in a band), was massive. Everyone wants to get some respect for the work they do, but I'm not sure Facebook gains anyone that respect. Make a strong site, update it frequently, advertis your music by playing the best shows you can, and make friends in the scene. Facebook is neat and the future of friendships, but nothing is going to make a person listen like putting out the best work you can as often as you can. 

I think that - not to derail the conversation - Kaiser was also having other issues, though. I don't know too much about it or claim to even know the man or his rationale, but I seem to recall a few facebook messages before he went silent indicating other issues. 

kopper said:

Agreed, Mardy. The whole "like" thing is completely overblown/overrated has gone out of control. It was because Michael Kaiser's RadiOblivion podcast wasn't getting enough "likes" here on the Hideout that he decided to stop doing it and ditch the site entirely (I believe he also deleted his Facebook account, for what it's worth). He specifically told me that he stopped doing his show because not enough people here "liked" it. Amazing.

The problem is that Facebook is the primary channel to advertise...speaking of my country, Italy, almost every bar or music venue is now making advertise only trough Fb, ignoring other ways even for example paper fliers or similar.

If you're not in Fb you can't even see the pages so for many people being out of Fb is like being without the possibility to know what's going on around the local music scene.

And you know that when you start to use Fb you'll come submerged by the "I like" way of life so is normal that all the things start to being judged by the "likes" that they have.

Anyway is good to have a personal website for every band so people can search you on Google but, sad but true, the fu...ng "likes" count.

Agreed, Mardy. The whole "like" thing is completely overblown/overrated has gone out of control. It was because Michael Kaiser's RadiOblivion podcast wasn't getting enough "likes" here on the Hideout that he decided to stop doing it and ditch the site entirely (I believe he also deleted his Facebook account, for what it's worth). He specifically told me that he stopped doing his show because not enough people here "liked" it. Amazing.

I personally think Facebook is a rubbish place for bands, I ignore it, I think Facebook is like a blue and white version of the pox as far as band pages go. Make your own site that reflects the style of your band and use the social networking for networking.

And seriously, do you really want to do business with someone who uses the amount of 'likes' something has to influence their business decisions? Sounds stupid to me.

I don't think it killing music by itself ;) but it's certainly helping. With all of the bad publicity that Facebook gets for aggressive business practices and all the data-mining it does, not too many cool people want anything to do with it. Speaking just for my own feelings, if anything I'm searching for gets a facebook URL, I don't even bother looking it up.

As for likes, they can be a barometer for something, but they aren't the end-all/be-all. I like to think that most punky types are fairly independent-minded.

I often try to look up a band only to find that they just have facebook page and no website.  I then get frustrated because these band facebook pages usually don't have any music on them or even links to music, and have very little information about the band.  It completely bewilders me.  Social networking is great, but all bands should have a user friendly website with music, bio, discography with purchase links, and tour dates.

Definately, I find it hard to believe that anyone could suggest these days that anything is killing music. Music is being made and shared now more than ever before in history. I was always dissapointed that Myspace (crap site now) wasn't around like 2 or 3 years earlier than it was because at the time I had nowhere to go to find out where gigs were happening in my boring, leafy suburbs.

I had no big brother to get me into good music and it's all thanks to the internet that I'm able to expand my music tastes without spending all my pocket money.

The only people who should be upset about the internet are those fat cats on major labels, which is why the governments are trying to clamp down on the usage.

Mole said:

Definitely not killing music as far as I'm aware - but is ANYTHING killing music? If you bypass the dross that passes for music on most daytime radio shows (I'm talking UK specifically here) and ignore pretty much anything on 'normal' TV [esp. those 'talent' shows - Jesus, what a total scam], there's an extremely healthy underground scene. As Kopper mentions, the DIY thing is probably easier now than ever before, and in my experience and opinion, social networking sites [just like this one RIGHT HERE!!!] slot perfectly into that approach. As our man says, you don't NEED labels/promoters etc to be able to put out your own music - what you need is BELIEF.

Definitely not killing music as far as I'm aware - but is ANYTHING killing music? If you bypass the dross that passes for music on most daytime radio shows (I'm talking UK specifically here) and ignore pretty much anything on 'normal' TV [esp. those 'talent' shows - Jesus, what a total scam], there's an extremely healthy underground scene. As Kopper mentions, the DIY thing is probably easier now than ever before, and in my experience and opinion, social networking sites [just like this one RIGHT HERE!!!] slot perfectly into that approach. As our man says, you don't NEED labels/promoters etc to be able to put out your own music - what you need is BELIEF.

thanks for the info - espiciallly the part about sending over just the bands own website - never thought of that before

kopper said:

I would also argue that it's because of this new social-networking craze that makes it even less important to be on a label. The DIY ethic is a helluva lot easier in 2012 than it was 20 years ago when you HAD to rely on labels, flyering, and getting reviews or interviews in printed 'zines. People are now in control of and have all the tools they need right at their fingertips to do all of their own marketing and promotion.

That said, any band in 2012 should still have their own website, first and foremost. Don't put all of your eggs in just one basket (i.e., Facebook or MySpace). Buy a domain name for your band and set up a blog there. Then connect it with your social networking sites... Facebook, Twitter, Bandcamp, LastFm, Hideout page, etc. I didn't list MySpace because I don't even waste my time on that crappy site anymore. Then instead of linking to your Facebook page and being overly worried or concerned that you don't have enough "Likes" on it or whatever, just link to your band's personal website. The important thing is that you have all the goods there that booking agents will need in order to book your band, such as music (a no-brainer), videos, a bio, etc. I would personally NEVER send any label or promoter a link to my band's Facebook page. Let them find that on their own AFTER they visit your site.

I would also argue that it's because of this new social-networking craze that makes it even less important to be on a label. The DIY ethic is a helluva lot easier in 2012 than it was 20 years ago when you HAD to rely on labels, flyering, and getting reviews or interviews in printed 'zines. People are now in control of and have all the tools they need right at their fingertips to do all of their own marketing and promotion.

That said, any band in 2012 should still have their own website, first and foremost. Don't put all of your eggs in just one basket (i.e., Facebook or MySpace). Buy a domain name for your band and set up a blog there. Then connect it with your social networking sites... Facebook, Twitter, Bandcamp, LastFm, Hideout page, etc. I didn't list MySpace because I don't even waste my time on that crappy site anymore. Then instead of linking to your Facebook page and being overly worried or concerned that you don't have enough "Likes" on it or whatever, just link to your band's personal website. The important thing is that you have all the goods there that booking agents will need in order to book your band, such as music (a no-brainer), videos, a bio, etc. I would personally NEVER send any label or promoter a link to my band's Facebook page. Let them find that on their own AFTER they visit your site.

Honestly, I only go to Facebook after I have heard the band.  I don't really rely on Facebook as a tool to market or gain followers for my podcast, but as a means of disseminating information and stuff for people already following. Facebook doesn't attract bands like Myspace used to, it is designed really to sell itself. DO you want to be on a label that is worried about Facebook likes?  

I dunno man, speaking as a guy who is constantly looking for coverage in a different but similar field, I'd say that social media like facebook and twitter are welcome additions to the tools in my marketing kit, even if I don't have thousands of "likes" on facebook or followers on twitter.  

I think it's more about the content of what you throw out on those sites than the sheer number of fans you can claim.

by taken seriously i mean that for record labels to really be interested and also good venues do you need to have lots of facebook likes - to prove that you can pack out venues sell records etc,,,

personally I think it helps alot. either way this is not meant as a complaint full stop I posted it to see if other people experienced this as well

What do you mean by "taken seriously"? Are you having problems getting booked because you don't have enough Facebook fans or something? What's the root of your complaint?