Yeah Andy, I have been battling Rich Eagan and his California Vagrant Records since 1991. They sold their soul to TeeVee Tunes so they could sign folks like the Get Up Kids, Alkiline Trio, MXPX and even Paul Westerberg and Rev Horton Heat to multi-record deals. I have had to deal with lots of confusion (and some real leagal Bullshit) over the years which drained both my engergy and resouces away from the Music I Love and Support here in the Pac NW. Fortunately I have cut my expenses way down to the bone and live for what I do. I had an opportunity to purchase the building my recording studio is located in and that actually kept my expenses down and brought in more income. It was a trade off though for years I couldn't tour or perform live because I was always recording some band for cash. Now the income from the studio (and the fact that I have other engineers working at my studio) have allowed me to put out albums again. I got lucky though. I still need to find folks to purchase what I have in my back catalog so I can get rolling again.

Another issue with being an Indie label is the lifetime of most bands isn't that long. In order to sell enough product by them to break even you have to have folks buy first pressing out right away before the band implodes. I have had so many bands break up right after I press things, that I had to wait almost too long before releasing some products (or not release them at all on CD/Vinyl but CDRs in small runs instead) due to my "wait and see so I won't get burned" skittishness. I know many of you out there have similar experiences like this. All your excess cash gets tied up in "The Next Big Thing" for your label and you worry "Is it gonna happen?" or "Are they gonna break-up" just as I press things up and have 1,000 beer coasters/xmas orniments?

Lemme Know. Post it here!

Your preaching to the converted brother, MP3s?? i'm still a vinyl man meself, as I'm sure most of us on this site are. The first release I put out, I spent months on the sleeve notes, I swear to god I sweated blood over that. I know when it comes down to it, its about the music, always, but I really wanna hold that album and read about it too.

between you and me, I was having a bit of a crisis a few months back and was thinking about giving it up, but I couldn't do it, I think I was just having a bad day, but fact is I just couldn't give it up, its in my blood now, I've been poisoned.

You mentioned in your first post about not getting paid from distros, thats not just me then??, I was beginning to think it was karmic revenge for not paying the gas bill.

By the way that Vagrant records emo bastards thing has to suck a big fat one.

Andy, I consider running a label is like an art project, YOu gotta really devote yourself to it body and soul. I have been living it so long that it is just part of who I am. I picked the name Vagrant Records for a reason (long before that SoCal Emo-schmeemo label) I never expected to make a dime on it. If I break even then I am a success. Back inthe 90's it was like that now it is just rediculous.

I also despise Electronic On-line Distribution of MP3 , because you get no tangible product for what you spend for the music (and I like packaging with liner notes and/or artworks) Places like MySpace and and here are Promotional Tools. I know there are 1000 folks worldwide who want what my label has to offer. I just need to find 'em.

Keep up the good work and stick with it. Most of all Keepa Rockin!

Hi Erik, I'm so broke my dog left me, i'm so broke tramps give me handouts. Seriously though, it can be tough, I've so many bands I'd like to put out but I just ain't got the money, and any distributors I work with want me to spend stupid money on advertising, but hey thems the breaks of running a niche label i reckon

How many of you indie labels are Broke? I know I am! I put out quality product by bands I love and support, but yest NO-ONE seems to be buying quantities that will support these hard working musicians. I found a few stores that would buy stuff from me when I was on the road, but still, things are rough out there.

What have you other label folks gone through? What works for you? Do you actually get Paid by Distributors? Post it here!

I am always on the hunt for killer rock n' roll bands that I have yet to discover. Most weekends i search record bins or online for some tasty new or used vinyl to spin. So, what records are on heavy rotation on your sound system? Here are my top 3 records for this week. 1) The Points/ Maaster Gaiden split 7" (Big Action Records)

2) The King Khan and BBQ Show "Teabag Party 7" (Crypt) 3) Carbonas/ DieRotzz split 7"(Die Slaughterhaus Records)

OK, so I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this... is the copyright law as it applies to music recordings somehow that different from the copyright law as it applies to films and other published works (i.e. allowing films and [I'm assuming] books to be rented, but not allowing this for music)? I realize WHY rentals for movies works better and yadda yadda yadda, but that still doesn't mean it wouldn't work at all for renting music... that is unless the law is written in such a way as to totally make that unlawful to do so.

I wasn't talking about absolutes here. Of course there are a few people who will watch a lot of movies over an over again and we all have a couple of movies that we like to watch again and again. But thats not the norm. Most people will only watch a movie once.

Bill sent me this link. It HAS been done before!

I dunno about that. There are some movies that I'll watch multiple times. Hell, I remember one weekend a friend of mine and I watched "Strange Brew" and "Slapshot" about a dozen times each.

This has been thought of before. But they were shut down pretty quickly because it's illegal to rent out music recordings. Besides people would just be ripping everything to their harddrives anyway. The reason rentals work so well for movies and not music is because people use them differently. Movies are most often watched once and music is listened to over and over again. So it's much more economical to own music (because it's used over and over) than it is to own a movie which typically only gets used once.

check this out...books are the next frontier of free access if Google gets its way...which I ain't entirely opposed to...wish something similar to this was possible fer music...and here we are back to Kopper's original dream idea.

Very true but I'm willing to bet that libraries can get movies on DVD a helluva lot cheaper that what Blockbuster has to fork over.

Well plus there isn't a huge debacle going on with people copying books like there is with file sharing/bootlegging.

I'm pretty sure libraries still need to purchase books, videos and records/CDs (unless they're donated).

That's true but goin' back to my "library" thread, couldn't anyone just "bootleg" a book by photocopyin' the whole thing? The cost for a rental company to purchase a video fer instance, due to its mass commercial use, is crazy, yet fer libraries it is much cheaper (if there is any added fee at all) fer the same video even though "pirates" can dupe both the same...cuz libraries are non-profit they can get away with alot more (though they still are accountable to copyright law and the such) and that's why we need a World Music Library (...yeah that sounds great and hippy)
...a non-profit Netflix?
...now I'm just ramblin'......

I think it would be easier for bootleggers to rip the shit off. Maybe that's why?

Ah yes, that's true... forgot about the "renting vs. borrowing" aspect. But you can also check out movies from the library. I guess I'm still missing what the big difference is between renting movies vs. albums, but then again I'm still pretty hungover from last night and my brain's not quite firing on all cylinders just yet.

Hate to mince meat here but unless yer library charges ya to check out CDs (late fees don't count!) yer not really rentin'...yer just borrowin' ...now if libraries started carryin' cool garagepunk CDs, ya could just inter-library loan a kickin' CD fer free (here again unless yer library charges fer that sort thing...and they shouldn't unless they're money-hungry) ...not knockin' yer idea, but once commerical interests and the RIAA get involved we might as well call the whole party off

On an aside: Once I get a TV set (again) I just may join Netflix!

If you add your show or event of interest to Upcoming.org, you can then send it to our GaragePunk.com - Canada group there so it appears in the event list at the top of this group. Here's a step-by-step on how to do this: 1) Go to www.upcoming.org and log in (if you have a Yahoo ID, just use this, otherwise you'll have to create one). 2) Next, click the "Groups" tab (there, not here) and search for the "GaragePunk.com - Canada" group and join it. 3) After you've logged in and joined the group, click on "Add New Event" and then type in all of the details, including any links to band/venue sites, images, etc. Then click the "PREVIEW" button at the bottom. 4) On the next screen, make sure all of the info is correct, then down on the right side you'll see "Groups" and under that, "Send to group?" Click that, and a menu will appear showing the groups you belong to. Select "GaragePunk.com - Canada" and that will add it to this group. (If you don't see this group listed there, that means you didn't join the group first... read #2 above again.) You're all done! Just repeat the above steps for any other events you'd like to add.

Yeah, I thought I still had the URL at the time I wrote that.

Oh OK, I guess I was confused about the "i'm not at liberty to let others hear it" part.

Cute and smart, hubba hubba.

http://garagepunk.ning.com/profile/gina Now don't go telling her about this thread or nothin' cuz then I'll be all embarrassed and stuff. ;)

Silly question: What's the screen name of the CEO (as to friend-request and harrass her about garagepunk...haha)?